Pioneer PRO-111FD Break-in Findings

[eliab]

Hello all,

I've begun preliminary tests on my new PRO-111FD panel and will be providing updates over the next week during its break-in process.

Once setup, I immediately placed the TV within the default "Pure" mode and placed it in "Dot by Dot," turned the "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" off, and lowered the "Blue LED setting," at which point I started the break-in disc via my PS3.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 15 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/15.png

Overall, the grayscale was too warm and slightly green, as is typical for these displays within the Pure Mode preset. Color space measured close to SMPTE HD specifications. In this department, Samsung DLPs are actually more accurate - post calibration that is. The good news is that there was virtually no difference in grayscale and color space between the different energy save modes with the exception that modes 1 & 2 were a bit more green at the bottom end of the spectrum (10% and under). What's really surprising was that there was also essentially no difference in light output (all around 41 fl)! This was indeed surprising as I was sure there would have been. Unless this changes over time, I'll likely keep it within the Energy Save 2 mode since it also eliminated the "buzz."

I did make another discovery that needs further testing before I make it public. If I'm unable to figure out a way to nip it in the bud - I may have found the Achilles heel of these displays. Hopefully, I'm wrong. I'll provide another update tomorrow.

Eliab

[DocMHale]

Eliab,

I noticed that your break in settings are different than the ones used by D-Nice. Any comments on why yours are different? Are you using the files from Evangelo2?

[Turbe]

For consolidation.

What's really surprising was that there was also essentially no difference in light output (all around 41 fl)! This was indeed surprising as I was sure there would have been.
The Power save modes will not show what they are doing on the Accupel's windowed patterns you are using. You will need a larger windowed pattern to see the effects of the power save modes......better yet, use full field patterns to see the dips in light output.

Man...you and I must be on the same wavelength because I was thinking that I should do that this evening to not leave any stone unturned. :D Thanks for the head's up anyway. ;)

My one goal is to determine how much creeping we can expect from these displays during the initial break-in period and eventually, over time. I initially said that I'd be doing so every 15 hours until I reached 150, but I'm now going to be doing so in 20 hour clips because I can't wait to calibrate this thing! Afterwords, I'll be providing periodic updates to see how long it sustains the accuracy of the initial calibration.

Eliab

[eliab]

I noticed that your break in settings are different than the ones used by D-Nice. Any comments on why yours are different? Are you using the files from Evangelo2?
I simply wanted to break-in the TV as close to it's default PURE mode as possible, which is what I recommend to my clients. And yes, I used Evangelo2's break-in files.

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our second Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. The first test was conducted after 15 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 37 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 37 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/37.png

As compared to the initial readings, the grayscale has dipped and gone green a very tiny bit. But, I must emphasize that I'm really splitting hairs here, as I don't believe many would ever perceive a difference between the 1st and 2nd readings. Color space and peak light output were essentially unchanged as well.

One thing that was included in this report that wasn't in the first are full-field white/gray patterns at 100, 75, 50, & 25%. This allowed me to more accurately examine the light output between the different energy save modes. What I discovered was that in the "Off" position, peak light output increased by a little more than 30% over the other two modes. Interestingly though, I actually measured a slightly higher reading in Mode 2 than in Mode 1! I checked three times to confirm - and indeed this was the case.

The third report, which will be published tomorrow, will represent 59 hours of usage.

BTW, the 1st report had the energy save off 10% grayscale reading at .323/.322. The correct coordinates were .323/.332. Sorry about that!

Eliab

[Turbe]

For consolidation.
Interestingly though, I actually measured a slightly higher reading in Mode 2 than in Mode 1! I checked three times to confirm - and indeed this was the case.
I got the same results as yours last night....along with some other "interesting" items.
Ditto. In defense for what I've been finding, it's possible that it can be attributed - at least to some degree - to the fact that the display is still in its break-in period. I should have a much better idea within the week. I'm also going to hold off calibrating it until I reach the 200 hour mark. At my current rate of 22 hours break-in per day, I'll be doing so next Tuesday evening.
Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our third Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. The first test was conducted after 15 and the second after 39 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 59 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 59 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/59.png

As compared to the previous two readings, the grayscale appears to be getting marginally warmer and a tad green. Again, it isn't doing so in a dramatic fashion, but it nonetheless seems to be s l o w l y moving that direction. Color space and peak light output are consistent with the prior two reports.

The forth report, which will be published tomorrow, will represent 81 hours of usage.

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our fourth Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. We've already published reports after 15, 39, and 59 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 81 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 81 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/81.png

As compared to the previous three readings, the grayscale once again appears to be getting marginally warmer and a tad green - overall. Again, I must emphasize marginally. Color space and peak light output are more or less consistent with the prior three reports.

The fifth report, which will be published tomorrow, will represent 103 hours of usage. It'll be very interesting to evaluate the differences after the first hundred hours and compare that to the 150 and 200 hours marks - at which point I will finally get around to calibrating this thing!

Eliab

[Turbe]

For consolidation:
It seems that umr may have been right regarding the period of time needed before calibration of these displays. Unless there is a wide variance in the readings now to the point of 150hrs, then calibration may be possible.

Note: I am not saying that calibrations should be performed prior to break in, but that it is possible.
Thanks for your feedback.

That's the whole purpose of this break-in report - to quantify exactly what happens during the first 200 hours of usage. I will followup with a thorough calibration report within the PURE and ISFccc modes. ;)

Eliab
Calibration should NOT be done any earlier than 150 hours due to grayscale shifts.

Eliab's tests are very interesting but do not fully address a calibration right out the box and then verifying if the calibration settings need adjustment after 150 hours (which they will and I've tested that months ago).

By no means am I knocking this experiment, but if the question is if it is ok to calibrate a set right out of the box, this to not the approach I would take....yet his data proves that there are shifts and would void your calibration if the set was calibrated right out of the box.




Calibration should NOT be done any earlier than 150 hours due to grayscale shifts.
I would agree based on my report.

Eliab's tests are very interesting but do not fully address a calibration right out the box and then verifying if the calibration settings need adjustment after 150 hours (which they will and I've tested that months ago).
That's not my point. I'm trying to quantify exactly how much and in what ways the display creeps over the first 200 hours of break-in.

By no means am I knocking this experiment, but if the question is if it is ok to calibrate a set right out of the box, this to not the approach I would take....yet his data proves that there are shifts and would void your calibration if the set was calibrated right out of the box.
Again, that is not my intention nor have I ever said that it was. I want to know precisely what's going on in the first 200 hours and believe that there are others that might be interested as well. I will also follow-up this break-in report with a PURE vs ISFccc calibration report. Again, I think it'll be interesting to compare notes.

Eliab
My comments were not directed towards you. It was directed towards those who think your experiment is geared towards what I said above.
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. ;)

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our fifth Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. We've already published reports after 15, 39, 59, and 81 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 103 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 103 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/103.png

This is what I've been waiting for. The display seems to be settling in after approximately 100 hours of break-in. As compared to the previous 81-hour report, there is virtually no difference to speak of. Nevertheless, I will continue reporting until the 200-hour mark is met.

The sixth report, will represent 125 hours of usage.

BTW, I stated on the 4th report that the 10% Window box pattern in the Energy Save Off position read .329, .329. The correct readings were .321, .329. Sorry about that!.

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our sixth Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. We've already published reports after 15, 39, 59, 81, and 103 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 125 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 125 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/125.png

Well - it looks like things are starting to creep marginally once again. Overall, the grayscale has dipped and become slightly more green as compared to previous reports. Peak light output has diminished a tiny bit as well, although color space is essentially unchanged.

The seventh report, will represent 147 hours of usage.

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our seventh Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. We've already published reports after 15, 39, 59, 81, 103, and 125 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 147 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 147 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/147.png

Once again, things have shifted a little. It appears that the grayscale has become less warm and slightly less green. Peak light output has also dropped a tiny bit. Color space is basically unchanged.

The seventh report, which will be published tomorrow, will represent 169 hours of usage.

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

Here's our eighth Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD break-in report. We've already published reports after 15, 39, 59, 81, 103, 125, and 147 hours of continuous play using a break-in DVD via a PS3. This one was performed after 169 hours, during which it was continually broken-in with only a 2-hour break to allow it to cool down.

Readings were taken within the "Pure" mode, "Dot by Dot" was engaged, "Orbiter" and "Auto Size" turned off, and the "Blue LED setting" turned to Low.

AV Selection Pure

Contrast (40)
Brightness (0)
Color (0)
Tint (0)
Sharpness (-15)

PureCinema

Film Mode (Off)
Text Optimization (Off)

Intelligent Mode (Off)
Picture Detail

DRE Picture (Off)
Black Level (Off)
ACL (Off)
Enhancer Mode (1)
Gamma (2)

Color Detail

Color Temp (Low)
CTI (Off)
Color Management (All "0")
Color Space (2)

Noise Reduction

3DNR (Off)
Field NR (Off)
Block NR (Off)
Mosquito NR (Off)

Others (grayed out)

3DYc
I-P Mode

Auto Size (Off)
Side Mask

Brightness Sync (Fixed)

HDMI Input

Signal Type (Video)
Video (Auto)

HDMI Control Setting

Input Setting (Off)

Blue LED Dimmer (Off)
Orbiter (Off)
Room Light Sensor (Off)

After approximately 169 hours, I took readings in a completely dark room. Patterns were supplied via my Accupel HDG-4000 test pattern generator outputting via DVI/HDMI @ 1080p/60 & 1080p/24. Measurements were taken from my Photo Research PR-655 Spectroradiometer straight on and at a distance of 7', which is how far my eyes will be from the screen.

http://www.avical.com/UserFiles/Image/169.png

Here again, things have shifted slightly - some points a little warmer - some a little cooler - some points a tinge more green - others less so. Regardless, these are the types of changes that we can expect throughout the life of most displays. Granted, eventually (1000+ hours), most will creep to the point where a re-calibration is necessary to sustain the accuracy of the initial one. But, many of these readings fall into the margin of error of the PR655. As such, I don't believe that we're going to see a measurably or visually significant difference over the next two break-in reports - but we'll know for sure within the next two days.

The ninth report, which will be published tomorrow, will represent 191 hours of usage.

Eliab

[eliab]

Hello all,

The Avical Pioneer Elite Break-in Report (http://www.avical.com/articles/avical-pioneer-elite-kuro-pro-111fd-break-in-report.html) is finalized. ;)

Eliab