Firmware stability

[Blutarsky]

Little OT but important within Pio users:
me and other users are complaining about calibration, getting some strange results during calibration...... you save some settings giving you certain measurements.... then later on (day after) you turn on Tv, throw some measurements and.... they've changed!

Thinking were the evil is standing, I thought how reliable is the firmware, of those sets....

Shawn could you ask Pio to tell if they've ever fixed something in the ISF interface with new firmwares? Maybe you could ask them also who is supporting European models....

[Turbe]

Does this happen every time? Anyone else experiencing this?

[Blutarsky]

Wolfy is experiencing the same beheaviour.... we are investigating on what could be the origin of the problem, meter, software or the TV so just asking...

[GorGorBey]

Little OT but important within Pio users:
me and other users are complaining about calibration, getting some strange results during calibration...... you save some settings giving you certain measurements.... then later on (day after) you turn on Tv, throw some measurements and.... they've changed!


I would like to know something.

When you say that something has changed. You're talking about factory settings or measures.

Could you be more precise ?

What Spectrophotometer do you have ?

I do several tests on my TV (FULL HD LX508D).

During 3 days, I validated a calibration that I have done using normal menu. With my I1PRO I always see little differences between measures (at most 1 Delta from 20IRE to 100 IRE, the gamma curve and the CIE diagram are always exactly the same)...

As soon as I will receive my cable I will do some tests with this software and I will post results...

Thanks

[Blutarsky]

Sorry.
Measures.

Both me and Wolfy are using the Display LT.

[GorGorBey]

Sorry.
Measures.

Both me and Wolfy are using the Display LT.

Ok, What differences do you have between measures ?

Delta E, Gamma...

It's very easy with the ColorHCFR tool to know the gap between two measures...

[Blutarsky]

The grayscale: you end a calibration session with a flat grayscale.... and the day after you measure again the grayscale and it is spoiled

[GorGorBey]

The grayscale: you end a calibration session with a flat grayscale.... and the day after you measure again the grayscale and it is spoiled

I have understood but the I would like to know the difference between two measures...

Because you have to know that the Eye One Display is specified at +-0,004 xy (that is 4 delta E).

The difference that you see is more important than that ?

[Blutarsky]

I'll have to check out the numbers.... nevertheless, why should the measurements change so much, across a night?

I mean, when you are almost endindg the calibration, you're fine tuning your set, so the last runs in the calibration flow give pretty much the same measurements. You should notice those deltas discrepancies but you don't. It's only when you start again that something changes.... we don't know if it depends on the temperature of the sensor or the TV or the software measuring.
Unless those +/-4dE apply particullarly when temperature changes so you could end the calibration cycle, say with the meter approaching +4dE due to higher temperature, and then when starting again the cold meter is reading in a -4dE state

Wolfy is performing some tests with a new software and hopefully we will have more elements to judge.

[GorGorBey]

I'll have to check out the numbers.... nevertheless, why should the measurements change so much, across a night?

I mean, when you are almost endindg the calibration, you're fine tuning your set, so the last runs in the calibration flow give pretty much the same measurements. You should notice those deltas discrepancies but you don't. It's only when you start again that something changes.... we don't know if it depends on the temperature of the sensor or the TV or the software measuring.
Unless those +/-4dE apply particullarly when temperature changes so you could end the calibration cycle, say with the meter approaching +4dE due to higher temperature, and then when starting again the cold meter is reading in a -4dE state

Wolfy is performing some tests with a new software and hopefully we will have more elements to judge.

What you said is globally true...

First I will talk about my sensor (the one I know the most). It exist a feature to calibrate the I1Pro. The objective of this calibration is measure the noise of the sensor.

It is well know that before an important operation you have to recalibrate this sensor (one option is available in the ColorHCFR to do that). Why? Just because as you said the noise is dependant on the temperature of the sensor...

Secondly, the measure is dependant on the TV. Why? Just because the TV needs time to stabilize (in my case 30 minutes seem to be enough). I have seen that several times in the past with some projectors…

Like I said before I have done 3 tests during 3 days (night)...Each time I switched on the TV and waited at least 30 minutes before taking any measures...Each Time, I have recalibrated my sensor.

I was able to reach very close results (1 DeltaE at most from 20IRE to 100IRE)

The ColorHCHR software is not in fault…

Did you follow the same process than me?
Do you have any option to recalibrate the sensor?

If else, I would say that the gap comes from the sensor…

[Blutarsky]

Probabily the problem is the sensor, but some software vendors are stating they can handle better the Display LT... we will see ......

Of course I do recal, I do acclimatate etc....

It's a long story! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=987720)

[GorGorBey]

Probabily the problem is the sensor, but some software vendors are stating they can handle better the Display LT... we will see ......

Of course I do recal, I do acclimatate etc....

It's a long story! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=987720)

There is a big difference with me...

I don't let the proble on the display. I just hold the probe during the measure. After I put this sensor on a table. I do the modification on the display and I will do again measure....

It's a pain but I don't want to soil the display...

Perhaps you can test...

[joestefano]

Sensor: Display LT
Software: CalMAN V3
GetGray DVD

I am having similar issues with my 150FD, I can't hold my low IRE's Red goes up off the chart. If I cal. to 20ire I lose 10, if I cal. to 30ire I lose 20. If I shut down then restart CC everything is OK for awhile then It happens again.
When the CC is not on at all my meassurments are quite different. When I get a chance I'll try Sencore's to see if there is a difference.

[Blutarsky]

.

It's a pain but I don't want to soil the display...


Well you can clean the display with the cloth...

[Blutarsky]

Sensor: Display LT
Software: CalMAN V3
GetGray DVD

I am having similar issues with my 150FD, ....

What issues? Do you mean using the G9 table?
Did you read this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1012093)?

Joe it would be nice if you could measure your calibration settings (once the meter has been for a while on tv) and then measure the day after to see if you get same results.....

[Turbe]

Blutarsky,

Do these changes happen with the C3 Remote too?

I thought you made changes with CC, Saved and then Checked the Settings with C3 Remote to verify the Settings were Set as you had Saved them in CC.

[Blutarsky]

Yes, absolutely. It's not a ISF-tool related problem... I hope Wolfy will have some constants measurements, with his new software otherwise it will mean that the display LT is simply unsuited for plasmas....

[Turbe]

Time for Group Buy / Power Buy for CalMAN? :D

I am hoping Wolfy will post his opinion here concerning CalMAN too... :D

[Wolfy]

I will post my impressions of CalMAN as soon as I have had time to do some tests. At the latest towards the end of the weekend or very early next week. I have some work to do on the car and other stuff that gets in the way.

One thing I can say up front is that CalMAN is great to work with, easy to design your own set of controls to follow your workflow and the tabbed design makes it very easy to keep track of your ongoing calibration and all the data. I'm beginning to see the reason for the cost simply based on how adaptable it is, but unless it means more repeatable results it won't mean much in the end...

Still keeping my fingers crossed that this software will solve the problem some of us have been having.

[Wolfy]

Just to let those interested know.

I have now made all my measurements and collected all the data from trying to compare HCFR vs CalMAN with regards to i1 D2/LT and plasma.

Now it's left to present the data which takes some work. I will post my results asap and since I've had little to no time to analyze it myself I will mostly post the raw data and we'll see what we will see, but now I'm going to watch the Hockey WC quarterfinals :D

[Blutarsky]

Is it finished the match? :D

[Wolfy]

Sweden won in overtime, yes! :D Now it's Canada in semifinals on Friday.

Will try my best to present my results today, but no promises. It's one thing to take measurements, an whole different thing to collate the data and make sense from it ;)

[Blutarsky]

I'm very happy after seeing GorGorBey readings before and "day after" check them out!!!! :) :)

[Wolfy]

Just did, it's as we suspected. I posted some results for comparison.

[Blutarsky]

Shawn, maybe you could move this thread somewehere else...