ControlCAL and a Pioneer PDP-5020FD / PDP-6020FD ... Any difference?

[Turbe]

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So I bought a Pioneer 5020 and now I am wondering if there is anything I can do to tweak the picture a bit to clean up the whites and dial down the red a bit. I came across ControlCAL and read up on it this afternoon. Apparently you can do almost a full calibration on a 5020 with this software. My question is, if I don't plan on getting a professional calibration done, is ControlCAL worth it? All I have is a bluray DVE and no measuring equipment. From the looks of it, there are three settings to change the RGB levels. Beyond that, is there anything else to change without having measuring eqipment to do so?

By changing the three RGB settings how will it change the picture quality "will it brighten the picture at all"?

Lastly, should I buy/donate towards the "Contribute $60 and receive: ControlCAL (1 Display Profile Set) / USB Serial Adapter / Serial Cable Bundle." Or would this be for someone doing a full calibration?

Thanks!

[Turbe]

Some have their own cables etc.. Regardless if you are doing a proper calibration or just entering Posted Settings, you need a Serial Cable (straight-through) and possibly a USB Serial Adapter like the Keyspan if your computer doesn't have a Serial Port. At the request from many, you can get everything needed (except a computer) from us to use ControlCAL with your Pioneers

I know many users are very satisfied with using other people's Posted Settings (specifically from D-Nice (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14384871&postcount=2) who has spent countless hours/years with the Pioneers).

To get the most from your Display, I recommend (as D-Nice does) that you consider having a proper calibration done, either you taking the steps/time to learn and do a DIY Calibration and/or Hire a Professional Calibrator (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058269). Some start out with using Posted Settings and then venture into Calibration and/or Hire a Professional.

Have you checked out these before and after PICS (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78&page=8) (starting at Post #145) from jkcheng122 who did his own calibration with a Chroma 5 and CalMAN? Another user's Pics HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2813&postcount=210)

I'll see if I can post some links to other useful reports

ControlCal is a breeze to use, very user friendly
as long as you follow the directions.
I have always enjoyed my 6020, but something about it just seemed a little off. The blacks are amazing and the picture is very nice, but it just seemed a little off. I tried to get adjusted to movie mode, thinking that maybe my previous viewing was the problem. Maybe I should have gotten the Elite?

Maybe I was the problem?

Well, after some calibration help from D-Nice (full calibration coming soon), I am completely in love with my 6020. Flesh tones finally look accurate (or close enough that it does not bother me.) The dim picture of the "stock" movie mode has been upgraded to a natural looking picture with much more pop. I had previously been substituting sharpness to enhance movie mode, but now I am able to back it almost all the way down. I am really happy with my 6020 now and I am glad I was able to save the money by not springing for the Elite.

If you find movie mode a little dim, I highly recommend getting your set calibrated, or at least purchase ControlCal and some inexpensive calibration equipment for yourself. The 6020 can produce the picture you want. Trust me, you are not the problem
Another big thanks to D-Nice for the offset settings. I finally tracked down a computer with a 9 pin COM port and applied the settings yesterday to my 5020. I didn't want to spend $40 on the USB to serial adapter.

After applying the changes, I popped in my Planet Earth Blu Ray and watched the Mountains episode. I noticed right away that the white snow was actually white and not as dull. The blue sky seemed much more vibrant as well. Very happy with the results!

[Turbe]

Another, posted Here (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2854&postcount=216):
I just got done adjusting the RGB settings on my 5020 and I can't say enough how pleased I am. The process was straight-forward and the step-by-step directions were very helpful. I can already tell the improved picture greyscale by switching between Advance and Standard in the Pure Cinema settings. Everything now looks more natural as it should. Thanks for a great product and all the contributors on this forum!

[Turbe]

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So ControlCal allows you to do an ISF calibration on a non-elite 5020 too? I thought you needed an Elite for that? And I certainly agree the before and after pics are compelling, but would like to know if you're throwning money away on an Elite if you use ControlCal.

[Turbe]

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You can get the gray scale right but not the color points on a 9G non-Elite using ControlCal so the Elite still has advantages.

[Turbe]

They can be ISF Calibrated - the Non-Elites do not have the ISFccc Interface available with the Elites of course...

In regards to the 9G Non-Elite's ISF calibration:

Just did my first ControlCal calibration of a 5020, and it went quite well. I was able to get the grayscale nearly perfect. The pre-calibration Movie mode is fairly good in this respect, but too reddish. It is also not as accurate as the uncalibrated Warm mode in the Panasonics, so these displays really benefit from grayscale calibration. With the Color control properly set, the color decoding is very good as well.

The gamma was very flat, though a little low at 2.11.

One gotcha people should be aware of. Make sure that the room light detection mode (or something like that) is turned off. Among other things, with it turned on the peak output measures much lower when the menu is activated than when it is not.

One odd thing I noticed about this display. It looks better than it measures. With the slightly low gamma and significantly oversaturated red and green primaries, I would have expected to see a slightly flat image with rosy faces and neon grass. I didn't. Skin tones and greens looked quite good and the image depth was excellent. Unusual.

As on the Elites, the black level is so low it is hard to measure. I didn't even try on this one, but past experience suggests that calibrated to 35 fL one can expect on/off contrast in the 17000:1 range, ANSI in the 6000:1 range.

These displays can now be had for a street price under $3K, which I think is a great buy.


they can still be calibrated well enough to make the current Panasonics look pretty bad in comparison. If you use the procedural information for using ControlCAL with the 20s, you end up "fixing" much of the inaccurate secondary colors the 20s have out of the box. I am surprised by how much better cyan, magenta, and yellow were post-calibration on a 6020 calibration done Monday. So for a panel with no CMS controls, it's still possible to improve color significantly with the right calibration tools and techniques.

Yellow, Cyan, Magenta and Red xy coordinates were MUCH better after calibrating - even though there are no adjustments for them, they improved considerably after calibration. Yellow was much too green and oversaturated before calibration - after calibration it was the right color, but still a little too saturated... a big improvement. Cyan and Magenta were both much too blue before cal... Cyan improved a lot but was still outside the triangle a little, Magenta almost fell on the reference coordinates after cal. Green started over saturated and stayed there. Red was still outside the triangle, but less blue after calibration.

[KCDoug]

Just a note of thanks to Turbe for quickly getting me the right profile info. for my 5020FD on a Saturday morning.

And my kind thanks to D-Nice for his generosity in freely sharing his expertise and calibration settings for the non-elite Kuros. Doing so provides a welcome option to have a pretty nice picture, as close as possible to an individual professional calibration which helps me further enjoy the privilege of being able to acquire a great plasma. (Can't help but feel a little bad for those consumers who buy one and use Pioneer's recommended settings. :devil: )

I'm happy to report that taking the extra time to read through D-Nice's instructions and organizing my papers and set up stuff up so that I could conveniently record my baseline settings and pre-calculate my new settings to easily input & save them seems to have paid off. I used my own DB9 cable and adaptors, and an IBM laptop w/docking station that provided the right connectivity.

All in all it went pretty smoothly. My only improvement suggestion to Turbe would be to remove the old instructions (that you say to ignore) included with the profile download and replace with D-Nice's step by step info.

Really appreciate the service - much as I'd love to have a professional calibration, budget priorities are preventing that from happening anytime soon (2nd daughter getting married this spring and recovering from recent layoff). My hat's off to Turbe and D-Nice as well as many others who have contributed constructive insights here and at AVS.

*Okay, now that I think of it, one minor gripe: My 1080i HD cable channels sometime appear a little grainy; it's more noticeable on some scenes than others. Conversely it's not noticeable on the same cable content on my older 720p Pioneer 5060, nor is it as noticeable with my Oppo 971 DVD player that is upscaling to 720p on the 5020. (I'm waiting for a replacement remote for the OPPO so that I can try to upscale to 1080 to see how that looks.) I hope to add BD in late summer or fall.)

Cheers,
-Doug

[squire23]

I purchased the ControlCal bundle and am very pleased with the entire experience. :thumbup:The cables were received from Turbe in just a couple days and I was able to input D-Nice's offsets fairly easily. The whole process took about 20 minutes. The whites have been cleaned up and movie mode has a little more "pop" to it. It's nothing drastic (which it really shouldn't be because the picture was already great) but there are noticable improvements to the picture. What was great now seems just about perfect.

The only suggestion I have is to maybe have a little more instruction on opening the ControlCal software and profile. I was able to figure it out, but had some minor problems. First, the software defaulted to COM1. I needed to change it to COM8 per the port I used on my laptop. Also, it seems like common sense, but once I opened ControlCal, it took me a couple minutes to realize I needed open the profile for my 5020 using File/open from within ControlCal. For some reason I thought the profile would open automatically once I put in my activation key. Finally, after inputing the offsets and powering off the monitor, I was not sure if I should unplug the cables at that point and close out of ControlCal while the monitor was off, or if it should have been done after the monitor was turned back on. I'm guessing it did not matter either way.

All in all these were minor I was able to work through them. Great experience overall.

Thanks to Turbe and D-Nice for enabling me to do this!

[corpfan1]

I agree with all your points...

Maybe someone can write up a "more detailed" step by step for the person who is afraid of doing something wrong the first time...

I was - but after playing around and realizing how things really work - it is a piece of cake.

There is really NOTHING to worry about - you can even plug in the cables while your tv is on, etc...but I understand the warnings.

I purchased the ControlCal bundle and am very pleased with the entire experience. :thumbup:The cables were received from Turbe in just a couple days and I was able to input D-Nice's offsets fairly easily. The whole process took about 20 minutes. The whites have been cleaned up and movie mode has a little more "pop" to it. It's nothing drastic (which it really shouldn't be because the picture was already great) but there are noticable improvements to the picture. What was great now seems just about perfect.

The only suggestion I have is to maybe have a little more instruction on opening the ControlCal software and profile. I was able to figure it out, but had some minor problems. First, the software defaulted to COM1. I needed to change it to COM8 per the port I used on my laptop. Also, it seems like common sense, but once I opened ControlCal, it took me a couple minutes to realize I needed open the profile for my 5020 using File/open from within ControlCal. For some reason I thought the profile would open automatically once I put in my activation key. Finally, after inputing the offsets and powering off the monitor, I was not sure if I should unplug the cables at that point and close out of ControlCal while the monitor was off, or if it should have been done after the monitor was turned back on. I'm guessing it did not matter either way.

All in all these were minor I was able to work through them. Great experience overall.

Thanks to Turbe and D-Nice for enabling me to do this!

[Turbe]

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When I first got my 5020, I went through the break-in process and then put D-Nice’s initial settings into Movie Mode. I thought it looked pretty bad. Whites were yellow, everything looked pretty bland. I was really pretty disappointed with my new purchase. Then I got ControlCal and put in D-Nice’s offsets and his post-controlcal settings and my set came to life. I was blown away by the difference (Thank you D-Nice and Turbe).

just my observations from adjusting my set:

i got controlcal in January, put in D-Nice's offsets, and over the next few days could def. see improved PQ, even w/o any break-in routine. like you though, i also wondered how much better it could get, and naturally curious, wanted to know how things worked. didn't have meters so i spent about 2 hrs one day testing diff SM settings using my dvr, watched it for 1 day & made minor adjustments the next day. i know, very amateurish approach, but definitely worked for me - i've kept the same settings since January. haven't had to keep making changes, only 1-2 +/_ in brightness due to content but mostly just switch a/v modes for day & night use. may not be very accurate but to my eyes Movie mode now matches up very well w/ Pure on the Elite.

my understanding of RGB is that they're complimentary & will interact w/ each other so usually only necessary (and easier) to adjust 2 and keep 1 constant as a reference. RH & BH changes had the most impact on my set so i used those to fix my white - didn't see much improvement changing RL & BL. G i think is usually kept as reference & rarely changed. though i did have to make small changes to GH & L to fix a source issue w/1 input, i don't think it's very common, probably just due to my eyes or my dvr. i also like the simplicity of Pioneer's SM - less is more approach, bias controls were very consistent, adjustments & effects easily seen, overall colors very consistent, natural & stable through various content.

for anyone on the fence, ControlCal's definitely worth trying, even if you only use it w/ D's offsets, his numbers are very good starting points & will improve your PQ. the 5-6 hrs total i spent & learning process was also worth it for me. thanks again to Turbe & D-Nice ! ;)
Posted Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16200624&postcount=10835)

[humble_t]

I've been reading through these posts for about 3 weeks now in anticipation of my Kuro 5020's delivery. The panel came in and I ran break-in images on a thumbdrive with d-nice's settings for +or- 200hrs. On Saturday I made a contribution for controlcal and on Sunday turbe quickly sent out the registration info and the profile.(thanks turbe!:thumbup:) Setup was pretty straight-foward as was inputing the settings. Printing the instructions and reading them over a few times before the process made things very clear.

I must say that the panel looks great. Whites most definitely look more natural. Reading these posts and following these instructions have allowed me (a total novice) to approach a PQ seemingly reserved for those who can afford a professional calibration or the expensive gear and the knowledge to use it. I sincerely thank everyone who has and will continue to contribute to this topic. Looking forward to learning more.:thumbsup:

[Turbe]

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Posted Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17417580&postcount=1403)

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to recommend Dave at Avical. He calibrated my Pioneer 6020 plasma. He was very knowledgeable and explained to me what all the settings did. I originally had my TV set to Game Mode as Movie Mode had "murky whites." Nothing just seemed to pop with Movie Mode, but after calibration those "murky whites" were gone and I'm using my TV in Movie Mode. After calibration my TV measures higher brightness (31.3 FL vs. 25FL previously) which results in better detail!

Dave was also able to change the settings so my sidebars would be black. The user menu would only allow you to choose between gray and variable sidebars.

Overall this was a great investment and I could clearly see the changes. If you live in Southern California, I would highly recommend Dave at Avical.