The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread [Archive]

View Full Version : The Official Pioneer 9G North American KRP-500M / KRP-600M Owner's Discussion Thread

Turbe

06-28-2009, 10:28 PM

NOTE: This Thread is for the North American KRP-500M and KRP-600M Models - not for the KRP-500M / KRP-600M or KRP500M / KRP600M Models available outside North America.

NORTH AMERICAN KRP-M FAQ by bodosom - See Post #4 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3915&postcount=4)

The North American M-Series is NOT a direct import from Europe or any other part of the world. It is designated for the custom installer market in North America. Although the specification is very similar to the European M-Series, they have different firmware (i.e. No ISFccc mode) in North America

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Images/KRP-500M_800.jpg

PRODUCT OVERVIEW:

50-Inch Class (49.85” Diagonal) 1080p KURO Flat Panel Monitor (KRP-500M) Reported List $ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15426253#post15426253) $3499
60-Inch Class (59.58” Diagonal) 1080p KURO Flat Panel Monitor (KRP-600M)
High-Definition 1080p Resolution (1920 x 1080p)
Deep Intense Blacks for Unmatched Contrast
Ultra-thin Cosmetic Design (2.5" deep)
Expanded Picture Set-up and Adjustment for Custom Calibration
IP Control for Set-up, Control, Configuration and Self-diagnostics
New Optimum Mode Automatically analyzes and adjusts audio and video settings based on content and room light
Room Light Sensor for automatic picture adjustment
2 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with HDMI Control
RS-232C Control
9W+9W Audio Amplifier
Available Ultra-slim Profile Wallmount (KRP-WM01 sold separately)
Available Table Top Stand (KRP-TS01 sold separately)
Available Optional Undermount Speaker (KRP-S04 sold separately)

Pioneer KURO monitors bring cutting edge technology and flawless visual design together for an experience unlike anything you’ve ever imagined. Building on Pioneer’s revolutionary line of KURO televisions, the new Pioneer monitors boast the same award-winning black level performance that has become synonymous with the KURO name.

Expanded features, multiple user menus and detailed picture settings put the custom installer's needs at the top of the list. Equipped with a host of options for seamless system integration, the Pioneer KURO monitors are an installer's dream.

IP network protocol and a multitude of other control options bring connectivity to the forefront and make installation almost effortless. Expanded picture set-up and finely tuned adjustment control within each setting let the custom installer create a visual masterpiece for the client with near limitless potential. Experience the new line of Pioneer KURO monitors today and discover a new world - nothing short of visual astonishment.

FEATURES:

New Optimum Mode automatically analyzes and adjusts video content and room light conditions for optimum picture and performance
New Room Light Sensor
Image Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
New Energy Save Mode (Picture Off / Standard / Save 1 / Save 2)
Picture Adjustment Comparison (compare before / after picture images while adjusting settings)
2 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with KURO Link and ability to accept 1080p True24/60Hz signal
1 DVI w/HDCP
Standard 3:2 (60Hz) and Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz), Smooth (60Hz)
Remote Control: Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode

PICTURE SETTINGS:

A/V Selection memory – 8 options for viewing preferences: Optimum*/ Standard / Dynamic / Movie / Pure / Sport / Game / User (PC input: only Standard & User)
Aspect Ratio Control – 13 positions: Auto* / FULL (for SD & PC) / FULL1 (only for HD) / FULL2 (only for HD) / FULL 14:9* / Dot by Dot**/ Zoom* / CINEMA* / CINEMA 14:9* / 4:3 / WIDE (only for SD)* / WIDE1 (only for HD)* / WIDE2 (only for HD)* - *Except PC signal
Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture (3*patterns)*/ SWAP and Still Picture capability
After Image Reduction Function
Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)––
Auto Size (Off / Natural / Wide-Zoom)––
Side Mask Detection (Mode 1 – for black side masks / ––Mode 2 – for black ––& illustrated side masks)
Side Mask Brightness Sync (Fixed / Auto)––
Video Pattern (White Bar)––
Game Control Preference (AV Selection: only Game) (Off / On)
Room Light Sensor (Off / On)

VIDEOPROCESSING TECHNOLOGY:

Picture Detail Settings – DRE Picture, Black Level, ACL, Enhance Mode, Gamma and CTI (No menu items for these functions)
Noise Reduction Setting – 3 DNR, Field NR, Block NR, Mosquito NR
Color Detail Settings – Color Temperature (5 Pre-settings or Manual adjustment), CTI, Color Management
3DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)
IP Mode (1 / 2 / 3)
Drive Mode (1/ 2 / 3)

Specifications and design subject to change without notice.

KRP-500M Brochure (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/KRP-500M.pdf) / KRP-600M Brochure (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/KRP-600M.pdf)

Additional KRP-500M Info (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Other/KRP-500M) / Additional KRP-600M Info (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Other/KRP-600M)

Back Panel / Connections (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/KRP-500_600M%20Connections.pdf)

Owner's Manual (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/KRP-500M_OperatingInstructions0905.pdf)

Turbe

06-28-2009, 10:28 PM

NORTH AMERICAN KRP-M FAQ by bodosom - See Post #4 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3915&postcount=4)

OTHER KRP-M RELATED FORUM THREADS:

How to Add ISFccc to North American KRP-M's (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361)

North American KRP ISFccc Calibration (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370)

Pioneer User Posted Settings Forum (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
KRP-500M ISFccc Settings by D-Nice (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413)

KRP-500M ISFccc Settings by bodosom (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371)

KRP-500M ISFccc Settings by management (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381)
.

Turbe

06-28-2009, 10:29 PM

bodosom

06-29-2009, 04:57 AM

Kuro Technical Information (http://www.pioneerhongkong.com.hk/mini_site/kuro/08/tech/index.html) (Pioneer Hong Kong).
101FD/500M architectural drawing (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO-101FD_CAD.pdf) (pdf).
141FD/600M architectural drawing (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO_141FD_CAD.pdf) (pdf).
Remote codes (http://www.pioneerusa.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/ELITE%209G%20MONITOR%20IR%20&%20HEX.zip) (zipped MHTML).
Basic RS-232/IP commands (http://www.pioneerusa.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Elite%20Monitor%20PRO-101_141FD%20Basic%20RS232C%20&%20IP%20Commands%20List.pdf) (pdf).
101FD/141FD Integrator's Manual (http://www.pioneerusa.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/2562%20Pioneer%20Integrator%20Mnl%20Elite.pdf) (pdf). RS-232/IP code list.
Installer support documentation. (http://www.pioneerusa.com/PUSA/Home+Entertainment+Custom+Install/Detailed+Product+Information/ch.Plasma+Displays.Default) The 101FD and 141FD materials are relevant to 500M and 600M owners. (Home Electronics Custom Install>Detailed Product Information>Plasma Displays)

Overview

Q. What's the difference between the KRP and the other Kuros?
a. The KRP is most similar to the Signature. The specifics can be found in the comparison thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15960856).

Q. Is the 500M really as good as a Signature 101FD?
a. They have similar picture quality (PQ) and similar capabilities. They share certain critical components specifically the plasma display module. The model specifics can be found in the Kuro Comparison thread.

Q. Is the 500M really better than the 60" Elite (151) or 60" Signature (141)?
a. It's newer and is reported to have some improvements.

Q. Where's the power button?
a. There's a power button on the bottom left side and a standby button on the bottom right side (500M) or the lower right side (600M) as shown on page seven of the manual. Both directions are as you face the front. The KRP comes boxed with the power button in the off setting.

Q. I heard the KRPs get quite hot or give off a lot of heat during use. Is that true?
a. They are warmer than some other plasmas particularly with very bright content. Such content is said to have a high average picture level (APL). Typical 500M glass surface temperature is about 105F.

Q. I understand plasma televisions use a lot of power. How much?
a. The KRP-500M averages 250W and peaks around 400W. Power consumption is determined by APL and the energy saving options.

Q. I've never seen/heard my fans running. Are they broken?
a. No one has reported fans running other than when the panel is in forced fan mode (see the integrator documentation). Presumably the threshold is well above the human comfort level.

Q. I heard that the KRP buzzes, what's that about?
a. Many Kuros have a buzz that comes from the glass itself. This is due to the way they work and the way they're made. This is discussed on the Buzz thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1044254). The buzz is a function of APL and can be reduced or eliminated using the Energy Save 2 mode. Not all panels buzz and/or not everyone hears the buzz.

Q. I hear that plasma displays are subject to burn-in and need to be treated carefully.
a. This is an area of complexity and contention. Particularly when considering the Kuro. First it's important to understand what can happen. As your plasma is used it produces less and less light. This is called aging. Under normal circumstances the glowing phosphors should last for tens of thousands of hours. However if you use part of your display a great deal more than other parts, e.g. by watching material that has a black border or has static images like channel logos, the used phosphors will be dimmer than the unused phosphors. In some cases this will be visible in full-screen programs as the formerly dark areas are now brighter or the static image areas are dimmer. This is known as uneven phosphor aging. A separate issue is temporary image retention (IR). IR is by definition temporary but it can last a surprisingly long time. The so-called video pattern is intended to remove IR. That may not always be the best thing to do and dim (10%) full-field patterns may be more helpful. xrox talks about dealing with Kuro IR in inverse areas (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17103239&postcount=32). By the way, the D-Nice break-in procedure is not intended to prevent or reduce IR or uneven aging.

Q. Why did Pioneer include a web interface? It seems useless.
a. The web interface has some utility but for day to day operations your remote is superior. You cannot use the standard remote to check hours. Something everyone (impatiently waiting for their break-in to finish) wants to do.

Q. How can I check my usage time (hours on), power count, serial number or retrieve the SD/PD Failure code?
a. You have to configure your KRP for network access, attach it to a network or directly to a PC and then open this link: http://<krp>/cgi/service_right.cgi where <krp> is replaced with the IP address of your KRP -- EZ Hours (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16480260&postcount=2328)

Q. Is it a good idea to buy a discontinued product?
a. In this case yes.

Accessories

Q. Can I use speaker X with my KRP?
a. There are standard speakers and "compatible" speakers. Please note that the official speakers are side mounted not undermount.
1) The official 500M speaker is the KRP-S04 (http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/62/490/11786/KRP-S04/specs.html). RichB mounted 111FD Speakers on a 500M (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16037782&postcount=416)
2) The official 600M speaker is the KRP-S02 (http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/62/490/11786/KRP-S02/specs.html). SoSo notes here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16135271&postcount=141) that 151FD speakers brackets fit the 600M. Tim Mcune mounted SMW-2026A 151FD speakers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16648017&postcount=3305) on a 600M. NateTTU suggests a spacer (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16648194&postcount=3307) for 151FD speakers for a flush mount. Pioneer rates the KRP-S02 and KRP-S04 at 80dB sensitivity so almost any 8 ohm bookshelf speaker should be acceptable.

Q. Can I connect powered speakers (soundbars, PC speakers etc.) to the speaker outputs?
a. It's unwise to make a direct connection. A level converter (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16769127&postcount=4518) is normally required. Search (google) for "speaker level line level converter" for more choices.

Q. Can I use stand Y with my KRP?
a. There are standard mounts and "compatible" mounts. Pioneer does not publish a comprehensive compatibility list. The mounting dimensions are in the architectural drawings here: 101FD/500M (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO-101FD_CAD.pdf) and 141FD/600M (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO_141FD_CAD.pdf).
1) The official 500M stand is the KRP-TS02 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Accessories/ci.KRP-TS02.Kuro). Other Pioneer choices include the PDK-TS23 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Accessories/ci.PDK-TS23.Kuro) (manual (http://docs.pioneer.eu/Manuals/PDK_TS23_AZR1176_manual/GetPDF.ashx)).
2) The official 600M stand is the KRP-TS01 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Accessories/ci.KRP-TS01.Kuro). Other Pioneer choices include most stands for 60" panels such as the PDK-TS30, TS30A, TS35A (http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/62/490/11786/PDK-TS35A/index.html), and the 1015.
Usage reports imply that the 60" 9G Kuros should accept all the same stands.

Q. What about a wall-mount?
a. Note that though they use M8 bolts neither monitor is VESA MIS-F compatible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Display_Mounting_Interface). The 600M (like the 141FD and 151FD) has four mounting holes in an 850x500mm (WxH) pattern and the 500M has six mounting holes on 496x150mm (WxH) centers. The 500M works with most universal mounts but the 600M is a bit fussier.
1) The official 500M wall mount is the KRP-WM02.
2) The official 600M wall mount is the KRP-WM01. Here's a list of alternatives in the 141FD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15967313&postcount=158) and a summary of 151FD mounts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15818201&postcount=12127) in the 9G thread.
Here's a post about monoprice noting that they don't have properly sized wall mounts for 60" panels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16420119&postcount=2095) and here's a post about adapting a monoprice mount for a 600M (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16455202&postcount=2215).

Q. Are there better sources than Pioneer for speakers and stands?
a. People have reported success on Ebay but suitable parts for the 600M, particularly stands, seem hard to come by.

Q. If there's no tuner how do I get over the air broadcasts?
a. Although not plentiful there are some stand-alone NTSC/ATSC over the air (OTA) tuners and DVRs. They are tracked in the HDTV sub-forum in the Set Top Box (STB) thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=1431208#post1431208). Typical examples include any High Def TiVo, the KWORLD tuner, the Centronics ZAT502 HD or other ATSC terrestrial tuner that has composite, component, DVI or VGA output with the requisite audio output or HDMI. DirecTV HD DVR users can use the AM-21 tuner.

Q. I can't find the KRP in my list of universal remote codes. What should I use?
a. The 101FD/141FD monitors have compatible commands. The Pioneer hex codes and those derived from them (e.g. URC) have an error in the discrete size/aspect ratio commands. info_dan posted corrected versions here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15868669&postcount=2479) in the 141 thread.

Q. The service menu access method from previous generation Pioneer plasmas doesn't work. How do you access the service menu in a KRP?
a. The simplest method is with a GGF1589 or GGF1633 service remote.

Settings

Q. I set my input to Auto but when I select an HDMI source that uses RGB signals the picture looks washed out. Why?
a. There's a bug in the auto-detection code with RGB. You can force it to the video range (RGB 16-235) or change the source to use Y'CbCr. The problem is noted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16137135&postcount=684) and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16230604&postcount=1145) among other places. A pithy response and a note from a non-native English speaker at Pioneer (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16845347&postcount=298). For a more in-depth look at level matching and why things look too light, too dark or have color overlay etc. check out this lengthy explanation of levels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=4969789&postcount=1). By the way, as mentioned in the PS3 question there can be shared port interactions.

Q. What's Y'CbCr?
a. Y'CbCr* is a way to represent and compress the RGB color information the panel displays. It's the native representation for DVD and Blu-ray discs. Industry abbreviations include YCC, YCbCr, YPbPr, Y'PbPr and YUV. These may also be modified by compression specifics such as 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0. In the KRP documents and menus Pioneer uses YUV444 and YUV422 while e.g. Oppo uses YCbCr 4:4:4 or YCbCr 4:2:2. Clearly the intent is too make color space configuration an adventure. *More correctly it's a family of color spaces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YCbCr) with useful characteristics.

Q. Then why don't we always use Y'CbCr?
a. Sometimes it's not available but even if it is it may not be the best choice due to player or AVR deficiencies.

Q. Speaking of Y'CbCr what are the right settings for my PS3?
a. The PS3 video FAQ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931796#video) discusses this at length but note the RGB bug above. In the Kuro community there is some disagreement. For video range inputs (television, DVD, BD) this should work (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16582578&postcount=2843). There is further commentary here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16646356&postcount=3301). Note that mixing certain devices on the same port (5 or 6) via a switch or AVR may cause problems (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16773713&postcount=4604). Here's another specific example (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16859733&postcount=327). If you have a free DVI/HDMI port you can split the output of your AVR to two KRP ports and set one to AUTO and the other to RGB 16-235. This requires a powered splitter that supports HDMI 1.3. Vendors include Gefen, Monoprice and J&R Galaxies. Using two HDMI ports is simpler than one HDMI and the DVI port.

Q. How can I connect my non-HDMI XBox?
a. The KRP has both component and VGA inputs although component is preferred. Available resolutions are shown on page 100 of the KRP manual. Note that protected content typically requires an HDMI connection for 1080p and DVD conversion is limited to 480p. Commentary here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16859580).

Q. Should I adjust my DVD player to send 1080p to my KRP, my audio-video receiver (AVR) or just send SD material directly to the KRP?
a. If you have a Blu-ray player the Spears & Munsil (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16086382&postcount=1) blu-ray assessment disc can help you determine which component should be used to rescale/de-interlace your source material. Otherwise you may be able to find a copy of the discontinued HQV Benchmark on DVD.

Q. Which Pure Cinema mode is correct?
a. I believe this is considered an accurate table of frame rates (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16864403&postcount=3624). To summarize: Off and Smooth are 60Hz, Standard follows the input (60->60, 24->72) and Advance is 72Hz except for 1080p/60.

Q. Should I use the D-Nice panel aging (break-in) process? Can I watch regular programming while running his procedure?
a. If you want to use the D-Nice 500M reference settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14384909&postcount=9) you should use the D-Nice panel aging protocol. There are currently no 600M reference settings and there are no Signature ISFccc reference settings. If you don't intend to use the D-Nice settings or your KRP will be calibrated then you don't need to follow his procedure. The documented procedure doesn't say you can deviate by watching other content and further postings say follow the procedure to a "T".

Q. Who's D-Nice?
a. World renown D-Nice is a well known calibrator and Pioneer bon vivant. As a public service he publishes settings for a variety of Pioneer (and other) TVs for folks that are unable to have their Kuro calibrated.

Q. What is ISFccc?
a. The Imaging Science Foundation (http://www.imagingscience.com/) is in the Display Standards industry, and is dedicated to improving the quality of electronic imaging. They explain and demonstrate calibration procedures. ISF ccc is a Certified Calibration Configuration which provides tools in the monitor to assist the calibrator. ISFccc mode selects one of those configurations. In the case of a Kuro ISFccc modes most obviously allow a very bright image with a specific set of characteristics. This article (http://avical.com/articles/isfccc-vs.-pure-mode-on-pioneer-9g-plasma-panels.html) highlights ISFccc versus Pure. The ISFccc modes in all Kuro displays is configured using ControlCAL (http://www.controlcal.com/). There is a KRP specific tool (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=51).

Q. Are there posted settings for Pure or ISFccc?
a. D-Nice post panel aging (break-in) 500M Pure settings are here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14384909&postcount=9). There are no AVS D-Nice reference ISFccc numbers for the 500M/600M but he has posted his 500M ISFccc settings here (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413). Some post-calibration numbers have been posted: tbird8450's 500M ISFccc Day (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17122944&postcount=1670), , elite-home 500M Pure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16242713&postcount=1273), elite-home 600M Pure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16242700&postcount=1272), frustated 600M Pure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16566078&postcount=2758). jdbimmer has posted his self-calibrated 500M settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16384976&postcount=1953). sillysally has posted his self-calibrated 141FD ISFccc-night settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16582562&postcount=3283).

Q. Are there any differences between the ISFccc modes?
a. Auto uses the sensor but other than that no. The names are just labels and night could be the bright one or they could be identical except for e.g. the Pure Cinema mode.

Q. Should I have my KRP calibrated?
a. Maybe. Here's one perspective (http://avical.com/articles/benefits-of-a-video-calibration-then-and-now.html).

Q. Okay, I want a calibration. Where can I start looking for a calibrator?
a. Turbe maintains a tagged list of Pioneer calibrators here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058269), patched KRP here (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=486) and htwaits logs customer reports about their professional calibration here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=712929).

Q. Which gamma setting gives the best performance?
a. 2.2 or 2.3 are the most commonly used but it depends on ambient lighting. Here's a set of measurements (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16445104&postcount=2158). Based on these one would use 2 or 1. Most published settings use 2.

Q. How can I save my settings in case of error, human or otherwise?
a. jdbimmer has written KuroReader (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17098590&postcount=1), a Windows program that will retrieve your settings and save them. This program currently only connects over the network.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 05:11 AM

:oops:I think/hope the site comes available again. In other news, I did however purchase a Spears and Munsil disc last night from Amazon :thumbsup:

I most certainly want to open up the option to ISFccc modes via the patch. So I'm hoping if I cant understand exactly what I'm doing that members will be kind enough to walk me through the procedure:uhuh:

One more question related to the Patch: I want to use my new macbook as I know it is possible I'm still not sure what I need to do this. or if I should just buy a very inexpensive netbook/notebook to do this?

management

06-29-2009, 06:15 AM

Can I use any generic USB to serial adapter since my laptop doesn't have a serial connection?

Turbe

06-29-2009, 06:15 AM

Turbe

06-29-2009, 06:19 AM

Can I use any generic USB to serial adapter since my laptop doesn't have a serial connection?

It's possible but many of them have issues (either hardware or drivers). I was reluctant to stock and ship Adapters and cables but since there were so many issues with so many of them, I did.

Read here (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29) and here (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174)

Since the Patch Package comes with the 9G Monitor Standard AV Selections Display Profile Set, I recommend Users use these Profiles (allows you to adjust PURE, Standard etc) first to make sure communications with the Display is OK.

We ship out our Adapter and Cable Bundle via USPS Priority Mail Shipping (to US Addresses), so it only takes 2-3 days.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 06:20 AM

I'll answer questions and help on both Threads.

Johnny, have you every used Apple's Boot Camp? Boot Camp (and VM Fusion and Parallels) do require you to have a copy of XP or Vista (I recommend XP Home) - of course, that is not free.

I really dont mind purchasing any recommended material/software provided it does not microsoficly(new word) infest my Mac and doesnt cost more then simply purchasing a new notebook with XP/vista installed.

Turbe

06-29-2009, 06:26 AM

I just picked up one of these 1000HE's (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10010057&prodlist=celebros) for $300 with MS Live Cash Back (and rebate).

The small screen can be a challenge for calibration though, but people use Netbooks and I love it.

But MS XP Home can be found for $50-$100 I think.

bodosom

06-29-2009, 06:28 AM

I really dont mind purchasing any recommended material/software provided it does not microsoficly(new word) infest my computer and doesnt cost more then simply purchasing a new notebook with XP/vista installed.

Assuming you have the disk space (30G) Vista is about $200. If you want to go virtual add about $80.

Turbe

06-29-2009, 06:40 AM

Can I use any generic USB to serial adapter since my laptop doesn't have a serial connection?

managment, I believe you asked about the Pioneer ISFccc Interface.

These links may help:

Understanding the Pioneer 9G ISFccc Interface (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109)

ControlCAL Reviews & Testimonials (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97)

I'm going to add them to Post #1 in the Patch Thread (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361) as well.

I'll be gone for a few hours this morning, taking our daughter to get Wisdom teeth extracted..

:thumbsup:

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 06:43 AM

Assuming you have the disk space (30G) Vista is about $200. If you want to go virtual add about $80.

Should I aquire this http://store.apple.com/us/product/TQ744LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA0OA&mco=MjE1MjQxOA:confused:

...then use bootcamp to run it?

Turbe

06-29-2009, 06:48 AM

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 07:35 AM

No, you don't need MS Office for ControlCAL

Don't buy this yet, but this is what I was talking about: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511

It's the OEM version, but I use them.

Is your Mac a Intel based one? What Model, how much memory, how much hard drive space, what video card?

I own this one- Apple 13" MacBook Notebook Computer (Aluminum Unibody)2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB (2x1GB) ,160GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive SuperDrive, nVIDIA GeForce 9400M Graphics, 13.3" Glossy Widescreen LED Display, iSight Webcam, Bluetooth 2.1+EDR 802.11n AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi, Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, 4.5 lb

Im on my work PC now so I cant be exact but I currently have 155GB space or so on the Mac, maybe more since its brand new with nothing installed beside Harmony remote software

management

06-29-2009, 08:21 AM

Sorry about asking so many questions but i know your the most knowledgeable person to ask. :thumbup:

Well maybe D-Nice too. :)

managment, I believe you asked about the Pioneer ISFccc Interface.

These links may help:

Understanding the Pioneer 9G ISFccc Interface (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109)

ControlCAL Reviews & Testimonials (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97)

I'm going to add them to Post #1 in the Patch Thread (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361) as well.

I'll be gone for a few hours this morning, taking our daughter to get Wisdom teeth extracted..

:thumbsup:

A lot of great reading.

I have one question. I saw that you mentioned that Pure mode was global. I thought it wasn't because you can have different Pure Settings depending on the Input you select on the 500M correct?

But you do get 3 additional settings? ISF-Day, ISF-Night, & ISF-Auto?

Can those ISF-Day, ISF-Night, & ISF-Auto settings be different depending on what input your on? For example, HDMI1 & HDMI2 have different ISF-Night settings?

Would I even want to do that?

The reason I ask is because I have a bit of a dilemma. Let me list my compoenents.

500M Inputs:

XBOX 360 - VGA (Only because it upconverts DVDs to 1080p) (1080p)
TWC HD-DVR - HDMI (1080i & 720p)
Wii - Component (480p)
Soon to have a PS3 - HDMI2 (1080p)

Will I have to calibrate each of these inputs to ISF settings?

I'm particularly concerned about the XBOX 360 because when I try to change settings on the VGA I do not have access to any but contrast and brightness. How will this affect my calibration using ISF? Will that mode be available.

Receiver Calibration:

I am considering just calling it a day and getting a receiver. If I use one cable to the 500M to HDMI1 can I just calibrate the ISF modes for that input and call it a day? Never having to change anything again.

I like the idea of having ISF-Day for SD and ISF-Night for HD. What does ISF Auto actually do?

Andrew

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 08:26 AM

Can we argue in here? Or will Mean Mr. Woodrow come beat us up? lol :D

I keed, I keed. For us Mac users, is booting into Boot Camp the way to go? (I've got XP SP3 installed in mine)

I am hoping some ISFccc mode settings for the KRP-600M will be posted a la the ones for Pure posted by D-Nice via elite-home, and that I can quickly connect in Boot Camp, set up the settings, and not have to do it too often. (I have a KeySpan USA-28XG USB serial-to-Mini-Din 8 adapter already.)
My Boot Camp MacBook Pro is in the back of the house as a desktop replacement, so I try not to rip everything apart and cart it around with me too often.

Do I need this adapter he speaks of as well and can this be included with my patch order?

management

06-29-2009, 08:33 AM

Do I need this adapter he speaks of as well and can this be included with my patch order?

I could have read incorrectly but I saw that the cable can be bundled with the patch and would save you $10. I plan to do that because I do not have serial on my laptop. I need that serial to usb cable that he knows works with the software.

EDIT: I see your probably referring to a cables for a MAC. My response probably didn't answer your question. My apologies.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 08:35 AM

Sorry about asking so many questions but i know your the most knowledgeable person to ask. :thumbup:

Well maybe D-Nice too. :)

A lot of great reading.

I have one question. I saw that you mentioned that Pure mode was global. I thought it wasn't because you can have different Pure Settings depending on the Input you select on the 500M correct?

But you do get 3 additional settings? ISF-Day, ISF-Night, & ISF-Auto?

Can those ISF-Day, ISF-Night, & ISF-Auto settings be different depending on what input your on? For example, HDMI1 & HDMI2 have different ISF-Night settings?

Would I even want to do that?

The reason I ask is because I have a bit of a dilemma. Let me list my compoenents.

500M Inputs:

XBOX 360 - VGA (Only because it upconverts DVDs to 1080p) (1080p)
TWC HD-DVR - HDMI (1080i & 720p)
Wii - Component (480p)
Soon to have a PS3 - HDMI2 (1080p)

Will I have to calibrate each of these inputs to ISF settings?

I'm particularly concerned about the XBOX 360 because when I try to change settings on the VGA I do not have access to any but contrast and brightness. How will this affect my calibration using ISF? Will that mode be available.

Receiver Calibration:

I am considering just calling it a day and getting a receiver. If I use one cable to the 500M to HDMI1 can I just calibrate the ISF modes for that input and call it a day? Never having to change anything again.

I like the idea of having ISF-Day for SD and ISF-Night for HD. What does ISF Auto actually do?

Andrew

I personally dont know much about ISF modes just yet. My opinion though would be to just switch to HDMI instead of VGA whether the input is available or not. If not go with a reciever. My experience with VGA @ 1080p over 1080i is that its not worth it at all. I have a pickyness to detail but never thought that losing adjustable settings with VGA was close to worth any benefit of p over i.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 08:36 AM

I could have read incorrectly but I saw that the cable can be bundled with the patch and would save you $10. I plan to do that because I do not have serial on my laptop. I need that serial to usb cable that he knows works with the software.

EDIT: I see your probably referring to a cables for a MAC. My response probably didn't answer your question. My apologies.

I am referring to the cables for a MAC and I also saw the discounted price I just need to verify before I go on a ISF related buying spree. :thumbup:

management

06-29-2009, 08:42 AM

I personally dont know much about ISF modes just yet. My opinion though would be to just switch to HDMI instead of VGA whether the input is available or not. If not go with a reciever. My experience with VGA @ 1080p over 1080i is that its not worth it at all. I have a pickyness to detail but never thought that losing adjustable settings with VGA was close to worth any benefit of p over i.

I see what your saying but I don't have a receiver at the moment.

Second issue is that the XBOX 360 will not upconvert regular DVDs to 1080i just to 480p (using the component cables) so that is why I use a VGA cable as oppose to the component cables. I can get 1080p upconversion of my DVDs.

Once I get a PS3 this will be a non-issue because I will watch everything getting upconverted over HDMI.

I agree with you latter statement as well. I would rather have adjustment settings over going from p to i. The difference from 480p and 1080p upconversion looks (to me that is) to be worth it.

But to tell you the truth, I didn't have much of a choice because the 500M only has one component input and my Wii is using it so I had to connect using VGA (although I used VGA on my Sammy before). I wish I had an HDMI 360. it should had been standard from the start. Stupid MS. :mad:

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-29-2009, 09:06 AM

I see what your saying but I don't have a receiver at the moment.

Second issue is that the XBOX 360 will not upconvert regular DVDs to 1080i just to 480p (using the component cables) so that is why I use a VGA cable as oppose to the component cables. I can get 1080p upconversion of my DVDs.

Once I get a PS3 this will be a non-issue because I will watch everything getting upconverted over HDMI.

I agree with you latter statement as well. I would rather have adjustment settings over going from p to i. The difference from 480p and 1080p upconversion looks (to me that is) to be worth it.

But to tell you the truth, I didn't have much of a choice because the 500M only has one component input and my Wii is using it so I had to connect using VGA (although I used VGA on my Sammy before). I wish I had an HDMI 360. it should had been standard from the start. Stupid MS. :mad:

Oh. I was under the assumption you were speaking of a newer xbox with HDMI, and when you said DVD I was also thinking HDDVD (accessory) and trying to upconvert that to 1080P(it only does native 1080i). I thought in addition to myself that we were all HD junkies just trying to shoot up so to speak :rolleyes: haha.

anyways... I see your issue. I'm then also curious about your ISF input question about the modes changing per input but the M recognizes the source even through a reciever as I know it. So I myself would be plagued by this.

Riot Nrrrd™

06-29-2009, 04:30 PM

Do I need this adapter he speaks of as well and can this be included with my patch order?

No J0HNNY - see my followup post in that other thread, you need the KeySpan USA-19HS single USB to DB9 adapter (http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=518&txtModelID=3914). What I have currently is a dual USB to MiniDin 8 adapter (I use it to connect to the serial console ports of my 2 Sun workstations, not to a PC).

Turbe

06-29-2009, 05:02 PM

Our USB Serial Adapter, Cable (configured for the Pioneers) and USPS Priority Mail Shipping is less than the Keyspan by itself :thumbsup:

Magnus_CA

06-29-2009, 08:51 PM

Turbe,

Is there a way to toggle between ISF Day and Night modes once the patch is installed? Since this is a patch and not natively supported by the KRP series I wasn't sure if it's possible.

Krik

06-29-2009, 09:16 PM

Magnus_CA

06-29-2009, 09:46 PM

Magnus,

Maybe I should let Turbe answer, but it's my understanding that ISF day and ISF night would be user selectable under the av setup menu. It would be selectable like any other mode, ie. Pure, Movie, Optimum, etc.

What I'm getting at is whether there is a toggle or direct select option for those av selections, rather than navigating through a menu and selecting them.

bodosom

06-30-2009, 06:46 AM

[is there] a toggle or direct select option for those av selections

I've not been able to find (working) discrete remote codes for mode or size. You can use the web interface or send the command via tcp/ip or the serial port.

Let me know if you find discrete codes.

Feh, this should be in the other thread -- my bad. I'll assume everyone is tracking that and move over there.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

06-30-2009, 09:11 AM

Turbe,

Is there a way to toggle between ISF Day and Night modes once the patch is installed? Since this is a patch and not natively supported by the KRP series I wasn't sure if it's possible.

Magnus,

Maybe I should let Turbe answer, but it's my understanding that ISF day and ISF night would be user selectable under the av setup menu. It would be selectable like any other mode, ie. Pure, Movie, Optimum, etc.

I've not been able to find (working) discrete remote codes for mode or size. You can use the web interface or send the command via tcp/ip or the serial port.

Let me know if you find discrete codes.

Feh, this should be in the other thread -- my bad. I'll assume everyone is tracking that and move over there.

[Turbe PM'd me this when I asked. He's a busy man -"Yes, once an ISFccc Memory (i.e. isf Night) is activated on an Input, it will show up in your AV Selections List (use your Owner's remote to switch to it like the other Standard AV Selections available).* This is the same as the Elite's with their ISFccc Interface."

(W)KRP

07-01-2009, 11:29 PM

I enjoyed the shootout, and the ISF-enabled news was enough to make me hop on the KRP-600M bandwagon before all the theater seats are taken! I just burned my first DVD-R as well, evangelo2's burn-in disc. I believe my monitor got shipped today, and I'm only one state away. Hopefully it's here before the holiday.

bodosom

07-02-2009, 06:19 AM

I spent a little time poking at ISF and the only unequivocal statements I can make are it gets brighter (over 50fL),it still clips too close to reference white and gamma is going to be harder to adjust than I thought.

My main interest is smoothing the gamma curve with DRE on since I'd really like to unclip above reference white.

I did make a quick stab at adjusting temp and got reasonable CCT and the gamma wasn't too bad at the default settings. At this point ISF looks "nicer" than pure but it's essentially pre-calibration so it doesn't count.

Thanks again to Turbe for the release even though last night's email makes me retroactively nervous.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 06:23 AM

bodosom

07-02-2009, 06:28 AM

Would the new calibration be good enough to win the shootout over a non-ISF KRP-500?

If you mean the VE shoot-out how can you know for sure. It was a free-for-all at best.

Anyone got both and want to give it a shot?

Both of what?

bodosom

07-02-2009, 06:34 AM

What email is that?

The subject was "KRP-M - Patcher Important Notice". I suppose it might have only gone to me but I assumed it was sent to all the folks that had ordered.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 06:43 AM

The subject was "KRP-M - Patcher Important Notice". I suppose it might have only gone to me but I assumed it was sent to all the folks that had ordered.

I didnt recieve one, I was just interested to know what had you "retroactively nervous" :please:

management

07-02-2009, 07:34 AM

I didnt recieve one, I was just interested to know what had you "retroactively nervous" :please:

:please:

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 08:41 AM

:please:

I'm hoping it wasnt something that would have been useful to know before I paid :confused:

Turbe

07-02-2009, 08:59 AM

What email is that?

Basically, to make sure your cables have good/secure connections and do not interrupt the process (Patcher Application) once it starts. This should be pretty obvious to all :D

Good idea to use the 9G Monitor Standard AV Selections Display Profiles with ControlCAL that is included (to adjust or REFRESH/READ Pure* settings?) first to make sure you have the proper cable type and good communications.

*Make sure you Input a signal (i.e. Cable, Bluray) when using the 9G Monitor Standard AV Selections Display Profiles or new ISFccc Profiles. You don't have to for the Patcher Application.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 09:01 AM

Basically, to make sure your cables have good/secure connections and do not interrupt the process (Patcher Application) once it starts.

Good idea to use the 9G Monitor Standard AV Selections Display Profiles that is included (to adjust Pure settings?) first to make sure you have the proper cable type and good communications.

:thumbsup:

bodosom

07-02-2009, 09:09 AM

Perhaps it was only sent to the set of alpha/"beta" testers.

Remember there are risks when doing things like this. When I "jailbreak" my iPhone I'm well aware that I might have to go buy another one. I'm sure Turbe is being extremely careful but you do have to acknowledge the risks just as when using ControlCAL to make adjustments.

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 09:14 AM

Perhaps it was only sent to the set of alpha/"beta" testers. I think the relevant bit is this:

Remember there are risks when doing things like this. When I "jailbreak" my iPhone I'm well aware that I might have to go buy another one. I'm sure Turbe is being extremely careful but you do have to acknowledge the risks just as when using ControlCAL to make adjustments.

What risks do we speak of? Whats the worst that could happen?

bodosom

07-02-2009, 09:31 AM

Whats the worst that could happen?

By definition the worst that could happen is rendering your monitor unusable. Since I don't know what happens during the upgrade I can't speak to specific issues but ControlCAL comes with a warning because extremely unlikely events do sometimes happen.

Pioneer has designed the Kuro to accept updates and if you have an epic fail applying an official update you can call Pioneer and ask for help. That's not the case here.

(W)KRP

07-02-2009, 09:34 AM

What risks do we speak of? Whats the worst that could happen?
You could "brick" your TV, i.e. make it unusable. Under the EULA you assume all risk.
Should CONTROLCAL KRP-M PATCHER prove defective, you (and not CONTROLCAL.COM or any authorized dealers of CONTROLCAL.COM products) assume the entire cost of all necessary servicing, repair, or correction.
Feel better now?

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 09:35 AM

By definition the worst that could happen is rendering your monitor unusable

Well the worst is horrible. No one knows what circumstances make one more susceptible to a failure of somesort?

J0HNNY H0PK1NS

07-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Feel better now?

Probably just the opposite of "better"

Turbe

07-02-2009, 09:47 AM

I just more spent some time, current Patcher release version checks are fine though I could have added a little more information to one of the Error/Status Messages. As before and planned, it is the current 'Released' version.

Anyways, make sure your cables are secure (and test communications with the 9G Monitor Standard AV Selections Display Profile Set* with ControlCAL before running the Patcher Application).

As with any similar procedure(s) for other devices/equipment, it's recommended you use a Laptop (on AC with battery) or desktop with UPS backup - obviously, don't pull your cables out during the process, close all other running Applications etc. - all common sense. Unexpected things could always happen.

:thumbsup:

*Included

LBDiver

07-17-2009, 10:21 PM

To Bodosom or another 500 owner "in the know". Does the patch fix the Auto RGB issue with the PS3 etc.

Thanks

bodosom

07-18-2009, 10:36 AM

To Bodosom or another 500 owner "in the know". Does the patch fix the Auto RGB issue with the PS3 etc.

The ISFccc patch does not "fix" the RGB bug.

bodosom

07-18-2009, 11:12 AM

I got a deal on a Sony BDP-S500 so I took it and I've been mostly happy. The thing is I loved my Oppo DVD player way more than my Sony so today my BD-83 was delivered. I expected some differences but this is ridiculous.

DOH!:o

I like totally hate the RGB bug. Totally!

LBDiver

07-18-2009, 06:46 PM

Bodosom, thanks for the reply.

You quote "fix", does it change anything, just not fix it?

bodosom

07-18-2009, 07:07 PM

You quote "fix", does it change anything, just not fix it?

I haven't noticed any changes other than ISF. I really imagine that if there was anything else Turbe would have mentioned it.

HogPilot

06-27-2010, 08:56 AM

Turbe,

I haven't been around in a while, but I can't help but notice the giant ad at the top of every page for KRP-500M/KRP-600M's - are these still available? I sent an e-mail to the address you have in the ad and got the auto reply, but didn't know if things just hadn't been taken down yet or if there were still monitors available. I'm only considering a 60" model at this time. Thanks!

HP