ControlCAL's Pioneer 8G Kuro Elite ISFccc / C3 Display Profile(s) Discussion

[Turbe]

My wife didn't allow me to access to the display :(.

She watched Doctor House till late.

LOL ok.. No Problem... That made me laugh though.... :D

Did anyone test Build 15? :(

[Wolfy]

...Did anyone test Build 15? :(Sorry, been busy with other things as you know :D Very close to finished now, but tonight there is Hockey WC semifinals all evening so I will be checking that out. I will have wrapped up this D2/LT assessment during Saturday and then I'll be back to testing again.

Any ETA on the new interface, or will there be a new interface as per Blutarsky's original idea?

[joestefano]

I got to work with it a bit. Anything particular to look for? it seems to be working fine.
I am however still having an issue restarting CalMAN. Strange!!!!

[Turbe]

I got to work with it a bit. Anything particular to look for? it seems to be working fine.
I am however still having an issue restarting CalMAN. Strange!!!!

Please see the Post below for Specific Test Requests:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=328&postcount=224

The CalMAN issue is very strange... I will play around with CalMAN and see what happens for me (demo version though).

[GorGorBey]

Please see the Post below for Specific Test Requests:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=328&postcount=224

The CalMAN issue is very strange... I will play around with CalMAN and see what happens for me (demo version though).

Turbe...It's 2.00AM here in France and I go to bed but I just do a little test but the Tuner Inputs and the Home [Media] Gallery Input selections don't work.

I receive the following error : Error Code from the display....

[Turbe]

Turbe...It's 2.00AM here in France and I go to bed but I just do a little test but the Tuner Inputs and the Home [Media] Gallery Input selections don't work.

I receive the following error : Error Code from the display....

G'nite :D

Which Tuner did you try? Also, please post your Display Model (actually, if everyone could add their Display Model and Region to their Forum Signature (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/profile.php?do=editsignature), that would be best).

When you get a chance, can you try the other Tuner options too?


-Shawn

[GorGorBey]

G'nite :D

Which Tuner did you try? Also, please post your Display Model (actually, if everyone could add their Display Model and Region to their Forum Signature (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/profile.php?do=editsignature), that would be best).

When you get a chance, can you try the other Tuner options too?


-Shawn

Each Tuner Option gave the same result...

My Display model is a LX508D

This time I go to bed....

[joestefano]

Shawn,
If I shut off the OSD while in CC then shut it down, I lose My AV Selection ability and Screen Size Control. If I restart CC and just turn on OSD my functions return. I don't have to activate Calibration to return to normal. Is this normal? Ill check the other inputs later. PRO 150FD

[Turbe]

Shawn,
If I shut off the OSD while in CC then shut it down, I lose My AV Selection ability and Screen Size Control. If I restart CC and just turn on OSD my functions return. I don't have to activate Calibration to return to normal. Is this normal? Ill check the other inputs later. PRO 150FD

"shut it down"

Do you mean you Pressed the END CALIBRATION Button? If so, it looks like there is a bug.. the OSD should automatically be enabled when you press that Button.

Is there any error messages in the Terminal Window?

In regards to your CalMAN issue, do the CalMAN Logs show anything unusual?

[Turbe]

Each Tuner Option gave the same result...

My Display model is a LX508D

This time I go to bed....


I hate to ask, but did you Press START CALIBRATION first (before Setting the Input/Tuner)? I know, I know... I have to ask.. :D


DAMN, I keep hitting EDIT instead of QUOTE (with my
Admin Permissions) when I'm replying to your posts.... :(

[Turbe]

Everyone, please see:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/announcement.php?f=4

:D

[joestefano]

Error Message for Home media, Tuner B. I dont have Tuner C. Tuner A OK

Yes, I Ended Calibration. Power Off then On and no AV Select

No Error messages in Box

Another thing, when I shut OSD off then END CALIBRATION nothing shows up on the screen at all. During Shut down

Even though I get an Error message when setting Input for Home media it does take the settings. ISF shows up on the AV select

[Turbe]

Error Message for Home media, Tuner B. I dont have Tuner C. Tuner A OK

Yes, I Ended Calibration. Power Off then On and no AV Select

No Error messages in Box

Another thing, when I shut OSD off then END CALIBRATION nothing shows up on the screen at all. During Shut down

Even though I get an Error message when setting Input for Home media it does take the settings. ISF shows up on the AV select

Can you try Tuner C (there is conflicting info in the Docs).

" no AV Select" do you mean no OSD?

Some Users disable the OSD during Calibration and I've been told that they feel performance increases with it off (they enable it upon exit, though I auto enable in Build 15 - it may not be working).

With Home Media, what exactly does the OSD show?

[joestefano]

Can you try Tuner C (there is conflicting info in the Docs).

" no AV Select" do you mean no OSD?

Some Users disable the OSD during Calibration and I've been told that they feel performance increases with it off (they enable it upon exit, though I auto enable in Build 15 - it may not be working).

With Home Media, what exactly does the OSD show?

Shawn,
I don't seem to have Tuner C.

"No AV Select" means that when I hit my AV Select button on my remote nothing happens. It does not scroll through the modes, Standard/user/ISF ect. In fact if you just hit OSD off even before you start calibration you can get this to happen. I dont think that is what you want to happen.

When I "set input" for home media I get an "error code from display"
but again the settings do save, ISF Day/Night show up.

[GorGorBey]

I hate to ask, but did you Press START CALIBRATION first (before Setting the Input/Tuner)? I know, I know... I have to ask.. :D


DAMN, I keep hitting EDIT instead of QUOTE (with my
Admin Permissions) when I'm replying to your posts.... :(

Yes...

And I redo a test this morning and it still doesn't work...

[Turbe]

Turbe...It's 2.00AM here in France and I go to bed but I just do a little test but the Tuner Inputs and the Home [Media] Gallery Input selections don't work.

I receive the following error : Error Code from the display....
Even though I get an Error message when setting Input for Home media it does take the settings. ISF shows up on the AV select

I believe that the Error Dialog is displayed in Error - if you check the OSD (top right on screen) after selecting the Home [Media] Gallery, does it show this Input?

Which Error Dialog (see attached pics) are you both seeing?

I will be releasing Build 16 later today.

EDIT: It looks like I am sending a improper code format for the Home [Media] Gallery Selection...

[Turbe]

Build 16 is now available:


Build 16 - 05/18/2008
+Removed check for "No Communications" during C3 INPUT Change/SET.
+Added Reset C3 Input Combobox after Calibration Mode successfully Closed (END CALIBRATION).
+Added additional time (based on Profile's Wait_For) to enable OSD when Calibration Mode is Closed (END CALIBRATION).
+Changed END CALIBRATION status text from "ISF MODE CLOSING" to "C3 MODE CLOSING".
+Changed/fixed Home [Media] Gallery Input Code.
+Fixed C3 Input Combobox not Resetting to blank on Invalid Input Set (when blank to begin with).

[Turbe]

I got to work with it a bit. Anything particular to look for? it seems to be working fine.
I am however still having an issue restarting CalMAN. Strange!!!!

Please see the Post below for Specific Test Requests:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=328&postcount=224 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=328&postcount=224)

Yes...

And I redo a test this morning and it still doesn't work...

Please retest... :D

[joestefano]

Shawn.
Build 16 Tuner A,B,C, not working. Error Messages (Form display & Input not changed) Home media seems to be OK.

Why when I Turn off OSD do I lose my AV Select function ?
How is this supposed to work?
I would think that it should only work while in the Calibration Mode.

[Turbe]

Build 16 Tuner A,B,C, not working. Error Messages (Form display & Input not changed)

For your Model's Region (Europe?), only Tuner A (Analog) and C (DTV) are valid for you.

I will have a discussion with Pioneer to get to the bottom of the Tuners, the Docs are a little confusing.. I am hoping other Users will try the Tuners (non Europe Regions).

Why when I Turn off OSD do I lose my AV Select function ?
How is this supposed to work?
I would think that it should only work while in the Calibration Mode.

Some Users like to disable the OSD (I personally wouldn't)... I just want to make sure when you Disable the OSD (OSD OFF) and then Press END CALIBRATION that once Calibration Mode is Closed, the OSD was enabled again (automatically)... Did this happen?

[EDIT]
The following is from the 8G ISF Documentation:
NOTE: But, in the Europe/General Regions/China/Australian model, these ISF's OSD indication is not displayed even if home gallery is started during all ISF adjustment modes. (While ISF's OSD indication is displayed, home gallery's GUI can't be displayed.) In this case, only home gallery's GUI is displayed. These ISF's OSD indications are displayed again, if input function is changed to the function except for the home gallery.

Before ENDING CALIBRATION, try switching to another Valid Input (not Home Gallery, perhaps your main HDMI).

-Shawn

[joestefano]

Shawn,
First I am in Connecticut,USA
and in build 16 my AV Select does return when I "END CALIBRATION "
it did not in Build 15. As far as the Tuners go I only have A&B and when I set Input to tuner A or B that is when I get the Error messages.
Joe

[Turbe]

Before ENDING CALIBRATION, try switching to another Valid Input (not Home Gallery, perhaps your main HDMI) <--- EDIT, that is for non North America..

I appreciate you taking the time to try the Tuners (even though you may have no intereste in calibrating them).. :D

Ok, then I need some others to try in other Regions (non North America).. :)

Once you END CALIBRATION, wait 1 minute and press the OSD ON button, see if get your AV Select back..

If that works, then the OSD is not being enabled automatically, I may need to add additonal time or change the spot where the OSD ON command is being sent.

[Turbe]

You don't have to be in CALIBRATION Mode to use the OSD ON/OFF Buttons but I am going to be eliminating the OSD ON button in the 9G Profiles since I need a button for the New Memory "ISF Auto". I want to automatically send a OSD ON command when ENDING CALIBRATION no matter if the OSD is ON or OFF .....

[joestefano]

How much difference is there going to be between 8th and 9th G models, do you know?

[Turbe]

How much difference is there going to be between 8th and 9th G models, do you know?

A common question in regards to the 9G Elites is if the 9 Point Gamma is going to be changing... Answer: NO (same range).

The 9G's do add ISF-AUTO (in addition to ISF-DAY and ISF-NIGHT), additional options for Zoom/Screen Size (Full2 for Japan, Wide2 and Auto for Others), additional Tuner Selections for Europe (HD) and Japan Regions....

[GorGorBey]

I will do a test tonight...I will post remaining issues if any...

[Turbe]

Shawn.
Build 16 Tuner A,B,C, not working. Error Messages (Form display & Input not changed) Home media seems to be OK.

Joe, are you actually using your Tuner(s) (have an antenna, cable etc. physically connected)..?

If so, which are you specifically using...?

[joestefano]

Yes, I have an antenna hook to Tuner A. I use it occasionally when my satellite goes out. With Build 15 I was able to set Tuner A but not with Build 16

[Turbe]

Yes, I have an antenna hook to Tuner A. I use it occasionally when my satellite goes out. With Build 15 I was able to set Tuner A but not with Build 16
As far as the Tuners go I only have A&B and when I set Input to tuner A or B that is when I get the Error messages.
Joe

I thought it didn't work in Build 15 either... :confused:

[joestefano]

Error Message for Home media, Tuner B. I dont have Tuner C. Tuner A OK

Shawn
When I wrote the result above Tuner A worked I thought it was Build 15.

I just did another test on Tuner A (Build 16)
Even though I get an Error message when setting Input for Tuner A it does take the settings. ISF Day/Night shows up on the AV select.

[Turbe]

Tuner A:
So, the OSD says Antenna A (or Tuner A) on the Top Right of the Display?

Does your remote work to change the channels?

Thanks.... Again! :D

[joestefano]

I guess we should start Identifying the Build version when we list our test results.

[joestefano]

Tuner A:
So, the OSD says Antenna A (or Tuner A) on the Top Right of the Display?


Does your remote work to change the channels?

1) Yes, but I set my display to antenna A from my remote before I started CC
once CC was running I tried to "SET INPUT" Tuner A and got the error messages. If I "SET INPUT" for let's say Home Media it switchs over but I can't get back to Tuner A.

2) Not when CC is running.

[Turbe]

I may make optional Profiles that will replace two Buttons (Perhaps OSD ON/OFF) with CHANNEL UP/DOWN (until the new C3 Specific Interface)....

But few even calibrate the Tuners and I suppose you could Set the Channel before Starting Calibration.

Opinions?

[GorGorBey]

I believe that the Error Dialog is displayed in Error - if you check the OSD (top right on screen) after selecting the Home [Media] Gallery, does it show this Input?

Which Error Dialog (see attached pics) are you both seeing?

I will be releasing Build 16 later today.

EDIT: It looks like I am sending a improper code format for the Home [Media] Gallery Selection...

I tested yesterday the beta16 and the Tuner settings still doesn't work. the OSD (top right on screen) doesn't change. I faced the second issue (error code from display)

Regarding Home Gallery the OSD is correct. Are ISF Night and Day avalaible for this mode ? Because I'm facing some issues when I tried to refresh data...

[Blutarsky]

GorGor, how will you calibrate DTV?

[GorGorBey]

GorGor, how will you calibrate DTV?

Globally whatever the source, Colour (Primaries, Secondaries) are always at the same place (when calibrated). I saw that on 2 different sources (PS3and DVICO TVIX 4100 SH)

It's similar to Contrast & Luminosity even if there is some gap between sources...But this gap is not so big (at most +/- 1).

The problem comes from the grey scale because I saw more important differences...

So, I take the assumption that the colours parameter can be copied from my DVD settings.
I also take the assumption that I can copy Contrast & Luminosity. But I will need to adjust value with my eyes...

Regarding GreyScale I don't know...Perhaps I will test both settings (those obtained with both sources upper) and I’ll save the best one....

It's complicated, it’s not objective but I sure that it will be able to reach a good level of quality....
After All it's DTV and it's not so good...

[smkuro]

Greetings all:

I have a relatively new Pro110FD, which I have calibrated with Display 2 and HCFR. I get great grayscale and RGB tracking (deltaE< 2), and the CIE plot is not too shabby either (without getting into changing the values using Pioneer's CMS).

My gamma curves look horrible, and I'm hoping to use the Calman Control program to fix this soon. Some questions for those who have tamed their gamma's:

1) What size windows do you use in HCFR? For an 8G plasma, I assume we should use windowed IRE patterns, and not full size (in an LCD, it does not matter).

2) What controls do use you to tame gamma?

Thanks for your help!

[GorGorBey]

Greetings all:

I have a relatively new Pro110FD, which I have calibrated with Display 2 and HCFR. I get great grayscale and RGB tracking (deltaE< 2), and the CIE plot is not too shabby either (without getting into changing the values using Pioneer's CMS).

My gamma curves look horrible, and I'm hoping to use the Calman Control program to fix this soon. Some questions for those who have tamed their gamma's:

1) What size windows do you use in HCFR? For an 8G plasma, I assume we should use windowed IRE patterns, and not full size (in an LCD, it does not matter).

2) What controls do use you to tame gamma?

Thanks for your help!

Of course you should use windowed IRE patterns...

With the HCFR file, it will be easier for us to help you to use the gamma control of ControlCAL...

[Wolfy]

I thought I'd bring up something that I have forgotten many times and now that I finally downloaded build 16 I was reminded about it. Before adding it as a feature request I thought I'd ask if others see the same thing.

Once ControlCAL is up and running I don't see it in the Task Bar in Windows XP. The only way to switch it after using another maximized window is to use the Application Window (ALT + TAB). It would be nice if ControlCAL showed up in the Task Bar because sometimes it's easier to use the mouse to switch between applications.

[GorGorBey]

GorGor, how will you calibrate DTV?

Did you already calibrate DTV ? And How ?

[smkuro]

Here is my calibration file for HCFR for my Pro-110FD. As you can see, the gamma curve is off the charts, but gray scale and RGB levels look fine. I haven't yet played with the CMS to adjust the primary color points.

http://www.cs.umass.edu/~mahadeva/pro110fd-pure-mode.chc

[Wolfy]

That looks weird and your reported luminance is through the roof, impossible to get with a Pio plasma TV! Edit: Look at the values in the Measures tab. You have 512 cd/m^2 for 100% white, that's way off target. SMPTE uses 35 ftL for 100% white for their studio monitors, which is around 120 cd/m^2. There must be something fundamentally wrong with those reported results and how you are taking the measurements or your sensor is broken.

[smkuro]

Hmm..I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here. I placed the Display 2 right next to,
but not in contact with the screen (perhaps 1-2 mm away). Could that be the problem?
I would not think so, since it seeems to be reading the values properly across the gray scale.

The Pioneer 110FD does produce a very bright windowed image, hence the very high values for the 100% IRE reading. Note that this is not a full IRE reading, but a windowed IRE reading. In HCFR, I set the size of the window to be 25% of the full display, I think.

[Wolfy]

Was this in a darkened room? If so, then it should be OK, you only need to be wary of having the sensor in the exact same position all of the time which is why it is easier to have the sensor touch the screen. For what it's worth, if you use the cleaning cloth that came with the TV after a calibration session with the sensor attached to the glass it's OK, nothing will stick to the glass.

If you have been doing readings in a lit room, daylight or ambient light then you really need to have the sensor attached to the glass to keep ambient light out.

You are using HCFR as a pattern generator through a HTPC? I have no experience with that so in that case I can't help you I'm afraid, but you definitely shouldn't be getting those kind of luminance readings from a plasma panel.

[GorGorBey]

Was this in a darkened room? If so, then it should be OK, you only need to be wary of having the sensor in the exact same position all of the time which is why it is easier to have the sensor touch the screen. For what it's worth, if you use the cleaning cloth that came with the TV after a calibration session with the sensor attached to the glass it's OK, nothing will stick to the glass.

If you have been doing readings in a lit room, daylight or ambient light then you really need to have the sensor attached to the glass to keep ambient light out.

You are using HCFR as a pattern generator through a HTPC? I have no experience with that so in that case I can't help you I'm afraid, but you definitely shouldn't be getting those kind of luminance readings from a plasma panel.

You have the same display than me. It should be better...Can you share with me your parameter... I think I know the root cause but I would like to see your parameters....

[smkuro]

I also have the AVS HD-DVD disc with the calibration patterns, so I'll rerun the readings this afternoon. Yes, these readings were taken during the day, but I have room darkerning curtains, so the ambient light was not too bright (certainly, the room was not completely dark, but it was not very bright either).

I also calibrated a Sony XBR previously, but I generated the patterns manually from the AVS DVD. It is much less painful to have HCFR automatically generate the patterns, and I think several people on this forum are using this approach (from the images posted).

[GorGorBey]

Did you see my message ?

[smkuro]

Another point I should mention is that this is a very new plasma -- perhaps a week old with about 40 hours use. Could that be the reason? Anyway, here are the parameters.

AV Sel: Pure
Contrast: 20
Brightness: 0
Color: +7
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema:
Film: Std
Text Optimization: Off
Intelligence Mode: Off

Picture Detail:
DRE: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhanced mode: 2
Gamma: 3

Color Detail:
Color Temperature: Manual
CTI: Off
Color Space: 2

R-high:+3
G-high: 0
B-high: -4

R-low: 0
G-low: 0
B-low: 0

I also realized that in the Other options, I had the Power savings Mode 2 enabled.

[Wolfy]

Did you see my message ?You quoted me instead of smkuro. ;)

[Wolfy]

Another point I should mention is that this is a very new plasma -- perhaps a week old with about 40 hours use. Could that be the reason? Anyway, here are the parameters...Those looks fine and are somewhere were I expeted from looking at your luminance from 10%. A contrast setting of 20 is quite low and you are not getting all the dynamic out of the picture from your Kuro that you can.

There is something else going on, perhaps GorGorBey can help as he seems to have used HCFR in this way. I have never used a HTPC so I don't have a clue about that I'm afraid.

Looking at the luminance from 10% in your file and assuming a flat 2.2 gamma, no black level compensation, you should have around 97 cd/m^2 (not 500+) for 100% white. :)

PS Forgot to answer your question. No, this is not because you have a new plasma. Modern plasma TV:s are aged in factory and the phosphors have an almost linear aging so there's no huge difference like it was with older plasma TV:s. There is absolutely something wrong with the results and I bet it has nothing to do with your TV.

[GorGorBey]

Another point I should mention is that this is a very new plasma -- perhaps a week old with about 40 hours use. Could that be the reason? Anyway, here are the parameters.

AV Sel: Pure
Contrast: 20
Brightness: 0
Color: +7
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema:
Film: Std
Text Optimization: Off
Intelligence Mode: Off

Picture Detail:
DRE: Off
Black Level: Off
ACL: Off
Enhanced mode: 2
Gamma: 3

Color Detail:
Color Temperature: Manual
CTI: Off
Color Space: 2

R-high:+3
G-high: 0
B-high: -4

R-low: 0
G-low: 0
B-low: 0

I also realized that in the Other options, I had the Power savings Mode 2 enabled.

I'm sorry but your settings seem ok...The contrast could be more important and the curve said the contrary...
Very Strange...

In my User Calibration My contrast is set to 28. And I have 150cd/m3 at 100 IRE. I'm not talking here about ISF settings of course...

And the source ?

[GorGorBey]

Another Thing...

Could you post the HCFR file using Cinema instead of user and Low Mode for temperature + gamma 2....
The gamma should be perfect....

It will help....

[GorGorBey]

Hmm..I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here. I placed the Display 2 right next to,
but not in contact with the screen (perhaps 1-2 mm away). Could that be the problem?
I would not think so, since it seeems to be reading the values properly across the gray scale.

The Pioneer 110FD does produce a very bright windowed image, hence the very high values for the 100% IRE reading. Note that this is not a full IRE reading, but a windowed IRE reading. In HCFR, I set the size of the window to be 25% of the full display, I think.

It's also obvious that if there is space between Probe and Display you must have darkness....

[smkuro]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am going to re-run the calibration today, and
put the sensor physically on the screen if I can mange that (the suction cups sometimes come loose and that's annoying). Also, I'll check the values with the AVS disc as well.

I am generating the patterns from a laptop running HCFR, connected to the display using a DVI-to-HDMI cable (connected to input 7). The laptop is running Windows XP in dual screen mode. The second screen (for the Pioneer) is set to 1920x1080 (automatically by Windows).

One more thing: I selected "Eye One Plasma Display" in HCFR, with the mode "Ambient light using diffusor" selected, as well as "Average many readings for dark values" also selected.

In the Parameters submenu in the Measures menu, should I select "Grayscale in NTSC IRE values" to be on? I can't remember if I did that or not.

[GorGorBey]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am going to re-run the calibration today, and
put the sensor physically on the screen if I can mange that (the suction cups sometimes come loose and that's annoying). Also, I'll check the values with the AVS disc as well.

I am generating the patterns from a laptop running HCFR, connected to the display using a DVI-to-HDMI cable (connected to input 7). The laptop is running Windows XP in dual screen mode. The second screen (for the Pioneer) is set to 1920x1080 (automatically by Windows).

One more thing: I selected "Eye One Plasma Display" in HCFR, with the mode "Ambient light using diffusor" selected, as well as "Average many readings for dark values" also selected.

In the Parameters submenu in the Measures menu, should I select "Grayscale in NTSC IRE values" to be on? I can't remember if I did that or not.

Please Uncheck Ambient light using diffusor...This option is to measure ambient light... And NOT to take measure on a display....

[Wolfy]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am going to re-run the calibration today, and
put the sensor physically on the screen if I can mange that (the suction cups sometimes come loose and that's annoying). Also, I'll check the values with the AVS disc as well.Yup, check it with the AVS disc and report back. It'll be very interesting to hear if that makes a difference.

Too bad about the suction cups coming off. You could try the old shoe box trick. If you have any sort of box that can hold the entire sensor inside, maybe line it with some foam rubber-like material. Then place the box over the Display 2 (cutting a narrow slit for the cable to run through) and press against the glass so as to make a seal and keep ambient light out. This way you can still do daylight reading while keeping the sensor off of the glass.

...One more thing: I selected "Eye One Plasma Display" in HCFR, with the mode "Ambient light using diffusor" selected, as well as "Average many readings for dark values" also selected.

In the Parameters submenu in the Measures menu, should I select "Grayscale in NTSC IRE values" to be on? I can't remember if I did that or not.You should uncheck both of these settings. Display 2/LT has no ambient light capabilities and I have shown in previous tests that a video black signal for a longer period can mess up the readings from the Display 2 sensor. IMHO, you don't gain any accuracy with "average many readings on dark values" set, it's rather the opposite.

I believe that NTSC setup (video black = 7.5 IRE) is only valid for analog sources. Maybe someone else can confirm this?

[GorGorBey]

With the I1PRO and HCFR it's the contrary. You really gain accuracy by using this feature (average many readings on dark values)

[smkuro]

This may sound like a dumb question, especially given my background in computer science, but how did you insert the serial port connector to the back of the TV? I see a RS-232 male port on the back of my TV. However, the USB-to-serial cable that I just got from Radio Shack has a male 9-pin end as well. Also, the Keyspan cable that Shawn recommends also has a male 9-pin end.

Do you need another gender changer to get this to work?

[Wolfy]

With the I1PRO and HCFR it's the contrary. You really gain accuracy by using this feature (average many readings on dark values)Yes, I only meant for Display 2/LT. I have no experience with i1 Pro... yet. ;)

(still not sure what to do)

[Wolfy]

...Do you need another gender changer to get this to work?Yes, you do. I use a female to female straight serial cable.

Make sure you have everything shut off when fastening the connector to the TV's serial port.

[smkuro]

Yikes, I wish the instructions that come with ControlCAL were a bit more explicit in terms of such basics, like hooking it up. OK, I'll have rummage in the attic to see if I have a female serial-to-serial, otherwise its another trip to Radio Shack.

I am re-measuring as we speak, and things are looking a lot better in terms of the readings. With contrast set to 33, I am measuring 156 cd/m^2 (or about 46 ftL). This
seems more in line with what you were saying earlier. If I reduce brightness down by 3-4 notches, I get the 100% IRE window measurement to be around 39 ftL.

Interestingly, the gray scale really flattens out at the low end if I keep the contrast at 33 or so. Otherwise, things get a bit messed up at the low end.

OK, gray scale looks amazingly flat and RGB levels are all very close all the way from 10 to 100 IRE. The CIE chart looks a little better than before, with all primaries very close (and secondaries as well).

Get ready for the surprise! The gamma curve is .... still messed up! It looks a little bit better than before, but not by a lot. It varies from near 1.1 at the high end to > 2.5 at the low end.

Any suggestions? (I need to get ControlCAL working, of course).

[Turbe]

IMPORTANT:

I started a new Forum for Pioneer Specific Discussions:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

I copied some Posts into 2 new Threads, feel free to use those Threads or create your own. I will probably be copying more Posts into the new 8G with ISFccc option Thread....

Please do try to Post in the Proper Forums... :D

Forum Layout/Design suggestions and feedback appreciated! :)

-Shawn

[Turbe]

Good point, joestefano, been meaning to ask about this but kept forgetting to.

I have a 16:10 widescreen LCD monitor, 1680x1050. I'd like to have it arranged similarly to this but with CC on the right side (don't ask me why, I just prefer it that way):

http://img176.imagevenue.com/loc531/th_47475_desktop1_122_531lo.jpg (http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=47475_desktop1_122_531lo.jpg)

Everytime I open a different profile though the extra window stacks up to the right of the profile window and if the profile window is positioned to the right the extra windows falls outside of the screen and you can't get hold of it:
http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc849/th_47476_desktop2_122_849lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=47476_desktop2_122_849lo.jpg)

Hence I use ALT+TAB or a mouse click to switch between HCFR and CC. It would be nice if the window position were saved when you moved them, but I don't know how difficult programming that would be and it's not that important.

Wolfy, Build 15/16 should have this fixed now.. :D

[Turbe]

Yikes, I wish the instructions that come with ControlCAL were a bit more explicit in terms of such basics, like hooking it up. OK, I'll have rummage in the attic to see if I have a female serial-to-serial, otherwise its another trip to Radio Shack.


Well, different Displays can have different requirements.. I have to admit that I need to work on Docs, but there is this Forum.. :D

Page 8 in this Thread has info and the Post below:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220&postcount=151

-Shawn

[Blutarsky]

Did you already calibrate DTV ? And How ?

No. I'm waiting to complete a satisfactory calibration for the DVD. Once there a will think about DTV.

I had an idea to ask my satellite provider to change the test pattern with a newer suitable for calibration.

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, Build 15/16 should have this fixed now.. :DYup, just tested it with build 16 and it was nice to see the windows stay as I left them after having closed CC and started it again as well as when I change between profiles. Cheers mate. :)

[GorGorBey]

I tested yesterday the beta16 and the Tuner settings still doesn't work. the OSD (top right on screen) doesn't change. I faced the second issue (error code from display)

Regarding Home Gallery the OSD is correct. Are ISF Night and Day avalaible for this mode ? Because I'm facing some issues when I tried to refresh data...


Shawn

Did you see that message regarding a test with b16...

[Turbe]

Build 17 is now available.

Download link can be found in Post #1 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2) of this Thread.

I had a chance to discuss the C3 Tuner Input problems with Pioneer this afternoon and have made some changes in this Build

Build 17 - 05/20/2008
+Changed/fixed(?) ISF C3 Inputs Tuner A - Tuner F.


TEST REQUEST - PLEASE POST YOUR RESULTS:

Please Test: (Select/SET) to your Main Input (HDMI) and Press SET.. Verify.
Please Test: (Select/SET) to your Tuner (A, B, C - depending on Region) and Press SET.. Verify.
Please Test: (Select/SET) to Home [Media] Gallery and Press SET.. Verify.

[Turbe]

TUNER CALIBRATION:
Before starting Calibration (and ControlCAL), you should Tune to the Channel you will be using for Calibration.

I may add an option in the ControlCAL.ini file to auto enter a channel number. The other option is to make available versions of the existing Profiles with CHANNEL UP/DOWN BUTTONS..

-Shawn

[Turbe]

I tested yesterday the beta16 and the Tuner settings still doesn't work. the OSD (top right on screen) doesn't change. I faced the second issue (error code from display)

Regarding Home Gallery the OSD is correct. Are ISF Night and Day available for this mode ? Because I'm facing some issues when I tried to refresh data...
Shawn

Did you see that message regarding a test with b16...

Yes, both ISF-DAY and ISF-NIGHT Memories are available. Some Controls will not be valid for HG.. which are you seeing turn Red during REFRESH (or what specific issues are you having)?

BTW GorGorBey, ControlCAL has support for your Mits HC3000.. have you tried?

[smkuro]

OK, I have ControlCAL (build 16) up and running with my Pro110FD. I seem to be unable
to do refresh all (I get error codes). But, I was able to set the temperature to 6, and
then modify R,G,B cuts and drives and also change brightness/contrast etc.

One question: I don't see a setting for color space. The TV is clearly in color space 2, not 1. How do I set it to color space 1 from ControlCAL? I don't see a knob for color space.

[smkuro]

OK, I found the colorspace setting on the second pane. I find the splitting into two panes somewhat awkward. Especially since I can't seem to have both panes up at the same time, either I can see pane 1 or pane 2. Do the settings I set on pane 2 remain when I go to pane 1?

I got the color space back to 2 now, and have to go back to the first pane....

[Turbe]

You should print out the instructions found in POST #2 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6&postcount=2) and follow them exactly.

There are two Profiles, P2 has the Color Space Control.

BTW, you should download Build 17 (Link in the first Post of this Thread).

Most start with P2, SET those Controls and will spend most of their time on P1. Just Press REFRESH after you Load/Open a Profile.

We are looking at releasing a C3 Specific Interface that will combine the Controls in both Profiles into a Windowed Tabbed Design.

-Shawn

[smkuro]

I thought I was following the instructions, which I have printed out in front of me (posts #1-#3).

I am finding this interface *Really* confusing. The instructions need to be more explicit.
In Step 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, you don't say at all whether to use Profile #1 or Profile #2.
Then, on step 7, you talk about loading Profile #1 (if #2 is loaded) or vice-versa.

I'm at bit lost at this point going between Screen 1 and Screen 2. I find this most distracting. Also, I'm not sure what Save Settings is doing?

[Turbe]

I would start with P2, SET Color Space to 2, Color Temp to 6 and the rest SET to 0 (others can comment on what they SET the rest to). Press SAVE before loading P1.

Then, just work with P1.

If you change a Control's Value, you need to Press SAVE for it to take effect (Press SAVE before changing Inputs, switching ISF Modes (ISF DAY / ISF NIGHT) or ENDing CALIBRATION) if you want to keep any changes.

I do know I need to work on the Docs, just have not taken the time. :o

Here is the link to the requested New C3 Specific Interface (ControlCAL is designed to be a Universal Control/Calibration application, supporting many Manufacturers):

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21


-Shawn

[smkuro]

OK, I assume "save" means click on "save settings" in the Profile Extras pane?

Also, when I try to refresh. I am getting a bunch of errors, and all the values are being recorded in RED font. What does this mean?

When do I press ISF Night or ISF Day? Once, or for each input (I assume the latter). So, the workflow is press ISF Night, load Profile #2, select input, do the settings as you suggest, press save settings, and then go to Profile #1, set the input, do a refresh, and then do the changes?

[gary1027]

I'm running ControlCAL on a Mac using Parallels and each time that I start it I get the following warning message.

[Turbe]

I'm running ControlCAL on a Mac using Parallels and each time that I start it I get the following warning message.

That is by design.. I want that message there each time since ControlCAL does have a Full Terminal Window (Advance Mode) available where Users could start typing random commands (which I don't suggest doing) and sending those commands to their Display.

Just Press OK or ENTER.

Shawn

[joestefano]

Just tested 17, Tuner A & B work fine :)
Home Media also works fine :)
Great job Shawn !!!!

[Turbe]

Just tested 17, Tuner A & B work fine :)
Home Media also works fine :)
Great job Shawn !!!!

Took me only 3 Builds.. :(

Thanks :D

[smkuro]

When I press OSD ON, it looks like I am not getting ISF Night Mode (or Day mode). The Display is simply giving the AUTO mode.

If I turn off the TV by doing a power off, without saving any calibration data, am I going to mess up the TV? That is literally the $6000 question I should have asked at the very beginning (and your docs should let us know of!).

[Turbe]

When I press OSD ON, it looks like I am not getting ISF Night Mode (or Day mode). The Display is simply giving the AUTO mode.

If I turn off the TV by doing a power off, without saving any calibration data, am I going to mess up the TV? That is literally the $6000 question I should have asked at the very beginning (and your docs should let us know of!).

No, you won't mess up the TV.. in fact, Pioneer will automatically Time Out the ISF Modes in 8 minutes of inactivity (and END CALIBRATION automatically).

Pioneer has placed many safeguards when in that mode and ControlCAL follows them.

I suggest keeping OSD ON so you can see the Status on your Display.

Of course, if you turn off the TV during Calibration, you will need to start from Step 1 to Calibrate in the ISF Modes. :D

-Shawn

[smkuro]

OK, I shut off the TV by doing a power off. If I now use my regular TV remote, the TV should come back up in its normal mode, right? Do I need to first quit from Control CAL, and disconnect the serial port from the back, before starting up the TV in regular mode?

[Turbe]

Yes, back to normal mode. You can keep your serial cable plugged in (or not, up to you), just use FILE/EXIT to quit ControlCAL.

Are you going to Calibrate using the ISF Memories and Controls? Just SET your P2 Settings and you will be done with it, then you will only be using P1 (unless you want to experiment with those filters on P2 later).

-Shawn

SORRY, I HIT EDIT ON YOUR POST

[smkuro]

OK, I quit Control CAL, unplugged my serial port (To be safe),and turned back the TV.
Everything looks as it was, and no ISF modes were created (because I did not do "end calibration", I assume).

This looks like a really nice software, but the documentation really needs work. There has to be a very clear workflow -- the current docs leave too much detail out, and there is plenty of space here to hang oneself. I'm glad to hear that the TV protects itself as much as it can.

Let's say I want to calibrate ISF Night (only for now) for inputs 4, 5, 6, and 7 (the HDMI inputs). I have my laptop connected to HDMI 7, which is generating the patterns for calibration. I assume I start with input 7 (set). Then, I have to do ISF Night Mode. Then, I set all the controls in Pane #2 the way I want them. Then, I hit the save settings button. (Wait, there's the refresh thingie too! You see why this can get hopelessly confusing without a precise *Algorithm*).

[joestefano]

Let's say I want to calibrate ISF Night (only for now) for inputs 4, 5, 6, and 7 (the HDMI inputs). I have my laptop connected to HDMI 7, which is generating the patterns for calibration. I assume I start with input 7 (set). Then, I have to do ISF Night Mode. Then, I set all the controls in Pane #2 the way I want them. Then, I hit the save settings button. (Wait, there's the refresh thingie too! You see why this can get hopelessly confusing without a precise *Algorithm*).[/QUOTE]


There is a learning curve associated with all this calibration work the more time you spend with ControlCAL the easier it gets. Hang In There.

[Turbe]

smkuro, I'll write up some better specific instructions for your examples, but I'll have to do it tomorrow...

Basically, you START CALIBRATION, Select INPUT, Select ISF MODE (DAY or NIGHT), Press REFRESH (next to SEND ALL), Calibrate your Controls and SAVE, then END CALIBRATION.

-Shawn

[Blutarsky]

Hello everyone, I just had a go with B17:
- OSD= On on exit now works :D (how do you close an issue in the project timeline?)
- load profile "bug": the dialog containing G9 controls is opened below the main window almost outside of the desktop.... do you store the windows position somewehere?
-Inter P1/P2 save settings now works; still you need to refresh... could you add an option to auto refresh on profile load?
- back on font size: I think I gave you improper info when arguing about large fonts: actually I'm not enlarging individual font size but using the global DPI scaling control @150%, could it be this the problem?

Cheers

[Blutarsky]

Can't find the zoom button....

[GorGorBey]

Can't find the zoom button....

Look in the second profile :D

I just bought CalMan Software with another I1PRO (Thank to Spectracal for the commercial offer...)

I will post results (and comparison results with HCFR soon) in the correct thread (Not this one...)

[Blutarsky]

I just bought CalMan Software with another I1PRO (Thank to Spectracal for the commercial offer...)


Huh? Now You own 2 i1pro?

[GorGorBey]

Huh? Now You own 2 i1pro?

Yes... I really like this probe :D:D

Joking aside, I will complete the transaction (the sale) of the first one today...

[GorGorBey]

GorGorBey, ControlCAL has support for your Mits HC3000.. have you tried?

Not yet but I need a longer cable to test it (the projector is on the ceiling)

I have in mind to do this test very soon...

PS: I just checked the profile for HC3000. Everything seem ok...Is it possible to set gamma differently depending on colour. If possible, it will be very interesting because these settings are not available in the standard menu (only global...)

[Blutarsky]

Yes... I really like this probe :D:D

Joking aside, I will complete the transaction (the sale) of the first one today...

Why did you buy another one?

[smkuro]

smkuro, I'll write up some better specific instructions for your examples, but I'll have to do it tomorrow...

Basically, you START CALIBRATION, Select INPUT, Select ISF MODE (DAY or NIGHT), Press REFRESH (next to SEND ALL), Calibrate your Controls and SAVE, then END CALIBRATION.

-Shawn

I'm still confused about the need to do a REFRESH. Let's say I am calibrating input 7 in ISF-DAY mode. Obviously, I am going to set the inputs the way I want to, on panel 1 and 2. Why is there a need to do a refresh at the very beginning? This is the step that gives rise to many error values, in my case (and the received values are then shown in RED, which gets me worried).

Regarding the Sencore interface, one thing that is worth taking from that is the use of a radio button for the ISF-Day or ISF-Night buttons. The problem with your interface is that once I click on ISF-DAY or ISF-Night, I have no visual indication on ControlCAL to tell me which mode I am in. Of course, I can turn OSD on and see on the TV, but it would be nice to have that on the software as well.

[GorGorBey]

Why did you buy another one?

I was able to sell the probe at a good price in France....
For this price, I bought an I1PRO + the CallMan software...

[Blutarsky]

I was able to sell the probe at a good price in France....
For this price, I bought an I1PRO + the CallMan software...

:D

Ebay?

[smkuro]

I'm still confused about the need to do a REFRESH. Let's say I am calibrating input 7 in ISF-DAY mode. Obviously, I am going to set the inputs the way I want to, on panel 1 and 2. Why is there a need to do a refresh at the very beginning? This is the step that gives rise to many error values, in my case (and the received values are then shown in RED, which gets me worried).

Regarding the Sencore interface, one thing that is worth taking from that is the use of a radio button for the ISF-Day or ISF-Night buttons. The problem with your interface is that once I click on ISF-DAY or ISF-Night, I have no visual indication on ControlCAL to tell me which mode I am in. Of course, I can turn OSD on and see on the TV, but it would be nice to have that on the software as well.


OK, gang:

Count me in the group of ControlCAL hackers! I now understand how to use this very useful piece of software! I created ISFDay and ISFNight for inputs 4-7, and calibrated them to have flat gray scale and reasonable contrast. The CIE diagram looks nice.

Unfortunately, the Gamma curve is nowhere near flat. I played with the Gamma settings a bit, but aside from noticing the huge effect on the grayscale, I saw no effect on my gamma curve.

Can someone suggest how to modify the gamma curve to make it flat. It is right now > 2.8 or so at the low end (10-20 IRE) and < 1.3 at the high end (80-100 IRE).

I assume gamma point low numbers affect low IRE and gamma point high numbers affect high IRE. Should I decrease or increase R, G, and B at each of these settings.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Turbe]

I'm still confused about the need to do a REFRESH. Let's say I am calibrating input 7 in ISF-DAY mode.

You need to REFRESH when you first Select an INPUT and MODE (DAY or NIGHT) and each time you Select a new INPUT and/or MODE.

You also need to REFRESH if you change Profiles and you have already selected an INPUT and MODE. i.e. P1, INPUT 7/DAY, load P2, just Press REFRESH (no need to re-select INPUT 7 and MODE ISF DAY).

On exception to this is with Gamma.. there are two small REFRESH Buttons on the 'Extras Window'... each time you change the Gamma Point you should Press one of those small REFRESH Buttons - only the Gamma Controls will be Refreshed for the selected Gamma Point. The large REFRESH Button (Main Window, next to SEND ALL) will also Refresh the Gamma along with everything else.

and the received values are then shown in RED, which gets me worried).

Some Controls are not valid for some Inputs (i.e. Y-Delay for HDMI Inputs). What Controls are turning Red for you? No worries, it just is letting you know the Control was not updated from the Display - if all of them are RED, then there may be communication issues.

Regarding the Sencore interface, one thing that is worth taking from that is the use of a radio button for the ISF-Day or ISF-Night buttons. The problem with your interface is that once I click on ISF-DAY or ISF-Night, I have no visual indication on ControlCAL to tell me which mode I am in. Of course, I can turn OSD on and see on the TV, but it would be nice to have that on the software as well.

Yes, this has been suggested in the New Interface Thread (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21).. :D

-Shawn

[Turbe]

smkuro,

You may want to change "Forced_Wait_For" Setting to your ControlCAL.ini with a value of 200 (200ms). See POST #4 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8&postcount=4) for more info and links to Wolfy's tests. If you have any communications issues, increase to 300 or 400 but Wolfy tested this setting and found 200 to work very well. It will speed up REFRESH. The Profiles are configured to use 500ms.

[Profile]
Forced_Wait_For=200
Startup_Load=C:\YourProfile.cdp

[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=15

You may also want to set a Profile to load on startup using: Startup_Load=C:\YourProfile.cdp


.

[smkuro]

Yes, that's right. The Y-delay is the one that always complains, since I'm only calibrating HDMI inputs at this time.

If I can tame gamma, I'll be thrilled. Everything else looks clean...

[Turbe]

Hello everyone, I just had a go with B17:
- OSD= On on exit now works :D (how do you close an issue in the project timeline?)
- load profile "bug": the dialog containing G9 controls is opened below the main window almost outside of the desktop.... do you store the windows position somewehere?
-Inter P1/P2 save settings now works; still you need to refresh... could you add an option to auto refresh on profile load?
- back on font size: I think I gave you improper info when arguing about large fonts: actually I'm not enlarging individual font size but using the global DPI scaling control @150%, could it be this the problem?

Cheers

I closed it..

If you move the "Extras Window" and use FILE/EXIT it should Save the positions (it won't if you just click on the Close Button, X top right on Window).

I have not experimented with the scaling, but it is logical this would change font sizes within ControlCAL.

[Turbe]

If I can tame gamma, I'll be thrilled. Everything else looks clean...

Did you check out this THREAD (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33)?

[Wolfy]

ControlCAL beta2, build 17, test request report:

Please Test: (Select/SET) to your Main Input (HDMI) and Press SET.. Verify.No issue selecting between different HDMI inputs.
Please Test: (Select/SET) to your Tuner (A, B, C - depending on Region) and Press SET.. Verify.
Tuner A - On my TV, Analog Tuner, no issue.
Tuner B - On my TV, error code from display.
Tuner C - on my TV, Digital Tuner, no issue.
Please Test: (Select/SET) to Home [Media] Gallery and Press SET.. Verify.Home Gallery selected correctly, no issue.

[Turbe]

Sounds good.. :)

[GorGorBey]

Shawn, Do you have a profile for a HC3000 with gamma settings ?

[Turbe]

It is the HC Series Built-In one (for now). If you have one of the Pioneer Profiles loaded automatically, I can attach a separate profile for the HC3000 (most likely in a new Thread). Let me know.

You could remove this line from the ControlCAL.ini file (if you have it there now):

Startup_Load=C:\YourProfile.cdp

Just ask if you want an actual Profile File.. :D

I have owned two HC3000, now I have a HC4900 - that is why the Profile is Built-in.

[GorGorBey]

It is the HC Series Built-In one (for now). If you have one of the Pioneer Profiles loaded automatically, I can attach a separate profile for the HC3000 (most likely in a new Thread). Let me know.

You could remove this line from the ControlCAL.ini file (if you have it there now):



Just ask if you want an actual Profile File.. :D

I have owned two HC3000, now I have a HC4900 - that is why the Profile is Built-in.

Yes I would like to have an actual file (Profile) for HC3000...

[Turbe]

Yes I would like to have an actual file (Profile) for HC3000...

New Thread started:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43

[Turbe]

smkuro, I move a couple of your posts to this THREAD (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=659#post659).

[Turbe]

ControlCAL Build 18 is now Available.

Minor Update and no impact for Pioneer Display Profiles.

Build 18 - 05/23/2008
+Enabled Control Numeric Format #1 for REFRESH (Required for the new Mitsubishi HC3000 Display Profiles (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43)). See # Format (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2&postcount=2).

-Shawn

[Turbe]

Joestefano, are you still experiencing those problems with CalMAN and the current ControlCAL Build (17/18)?

-Shawn

[joestefano]

I'm sorry Shawn, I haven't had much time to work on it lately. I'll try later and get back to you.
Joe

[smkuro]

I decided to use the PC input on my Pro110FD, with a Faroudja NRS DVI
scaler that produces 1024x768 (60hz), to watch older DVDs. The Faroudja
is a nice scaler -- at some point, I should get it upgraded to 1080p.

Do I need to do anything different for calibrating the PC input? I think this is input 8, right? I know that this input has straight R-G-B controls in the user menu (instead of color and tint).

[Turbe]

For North America, it looks like Input 8 is correct. I don't think anyone else here has calibrated the PC Input yet... later today, I will look over the docs to see if there is anything important that needs posting.

[smkuro]

I just tried calibrating input 8 and got a bunch of errors. I think this mode is somewhat special, so you should revise the procedure. The standard panels don't seem to work properly.

[GorGorBey]

ControlCAL beta2, build 17, test request report:

No issue selecting between different HDMI inputs.

Tuner A - On my TV, Analog Tuner, no issue.
Tuner B - On my TV, error code from display.
Tuner C - on my TV, Digital Tuner, no issue.
Home Gallery selected correctly, no issue.

I agree with Wolfy on my LX508D....

Work as design :).

I'm waiting currently for the new probe to continue calibration but definitely what is lacking the most now is a way to copy/paste settings from one input to another one....

I hope it will be avalaible soon (For me this option is far more important than a different interface...)

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, Build 15/16 should have this fixed now.. :DYup, just tested it with build 16 and it was nice to see the windows stay as I left them after having closed CC and started it again as well as when I change between profiles. Cheers mate. :)Hey Shawn,

there still seems to be an issue with saving the position of the UI windows or rather an issue with one of the windows.

I moved the main Profile window to a new position on my desktop and consequently moved the Extra window too. Only the position of the Extra window is saved, the main window opens at the same position where I had first moved it after I started to use build 17.

This is only an issue when I close down CC. After I have moved the main Profile window it stays put when I change between the profiles. The Extra window stays in the same position regardless if I shut CC down or just change the profiles.

[Turbe]

How are you shutting down ControlCAL?

You need to use FILE/EXIT... using the close control (top right of window, or any method other than FILE/EXIT) will reset the saved Window Position.

-Shawn

[Wolfy]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, I have tried all possible ways. Clicking the X, using File | Exit and using ALT+F4. ;)

Main Profile widows always opens in the same position where I first moved it to, regardless.

[Turbe]

Ahh, I misunderstood (I think :confused:),,

The only way the positions are saved (current Version/Build) is on FILE/EXIT. If you want to change Window positions and have them saved, you need to move/place the Window(s) and do a FILE/EXIT then start over (so do exit if you want to use the new position on Profile Loads)..

I thought about adding an option in the Menu to save these Settings..... :D

[Turbe]

I agree with Wolfy on my LX508D....

Work as design :).

I'm waiting currently for the new probe to continue calibration but definitely what is lacking the most now is a way to copy/paste settings from one input to another one....

I hope it will be available soon (For me this option is far more important than a different interface...)

So, how many others (at least the Users/Members who actually Post :( ) feel this is a feature (Export/Import or Save/Load Control Values) that is needed ASAP?

[Wolfy]

Ahh, I misunderstood (I think :confused:),,

The only way the positions are saved (current Version/Build) is on FILE/EXIT. If you want to change Window positions and have them saved, you need to move/place the Window(s) and do a FILE/EXIT then start over (so do exit if you want to use the new position on Profile Loads)..

I thought about adding an option in the Menu to save these Settings..... :DHehe, I could have sworn that I had done exactly like you describe it above, and many times.

Anyway, I moved the Extra window back and used File | Exit and then moved it all to the new position and used File | Exit and this time all positions were saved... So, I guess I messed it up before. :)

A menu option would be nice for us clutzes. :D

[smkuro]

What I generally do is calibrate one specific input (e.g. input 4), and then save settings,
set the input to 5,6, and 7, and just do a send all. Of course, it is a bit tedious to do this
for each specific input (and for ISF-Day and ISF-Night). A global send all might be nicer, but then it might be risky if you calibrate each input differently.

One scary episode: I aborted once out of a calibration by exiting without pressing the "end calibration" button. When I rebooted, I found the ISF-Day and ISF-Night modes had vanished from the menu! I thought I had lost all the settings. It turned out that the parameters were saved all right, but that these modes are only available (or turned on) when you exit from ControlCAL using the "End Calibration" button.

[GorGorBey]

What I generally do is calibrate one specific input (e.g. input 4), and then save settings,
set the input to 5,6, and 7, and just do a send all. Of course, it is a bit tedious to do this
for each specific input (and for ISF-Day and ISF-Night). A global send all might be nicer, but then it might be risky if you calibrate each input differently.

Yep but it doesn't work for gamma....

[Wolfy]

Yep but it doesn't work for gamma....That's why a new interface, with all of the gamma settings visible at once, is so important. It would simply transform CC to another level in terms of user friendliness.

[Wolfy]

Hi Shawn,

do you know if there's a way to get to the control called "Drive Mode" by using the serial codes?

I thought about this once you added the Zoom mode, but have forgotten to mention it. If someone else has mentioned it, I have missed it.

Drive Mode is not under the Picture option in the Pioneer User Menu, but under Option -> Drive Mode (page 2/2).

It has 3 settings, Drive Mode: 1, 2 or 3 and sets the display's refresh rate (amongst other things?).

1 => 75 Hz (PAL DVD)
2 => 100 Hz (PAL Video (i.e. TV), 60 Hz NTSC Video)
3 => 72 Hz (NTSC DVD (with PureCinema set to Advance), BluRay, HD-DVD)

I know there is not room for it currently, but if/when ;) you make the new interface and if it's possible it would be great if Drive Mode were also accessible via CC.

[smkuro]

Yikes, I didn't realize that the gamma settings were not being saved from one input to another when I do a refresh all. Hmm.. I need to go back and make sure that all the inputs are using the same gamma setting. This is definitely a bug that needs to be fixed.....

[Turbe]

Gamma Settings have separate memories for each Input's Mode (Day/Night) and ControlCAL should be saving the Gamma Values for the current Point selected when you Press SEND ALL.

Are you talking about the Gamma Points? SEND ALL only sends the values of the Controls you see on Screen (current Gamma Point, all three Channels - RGB).

You need to select another Gamma point, Refresh using 1 of 2 small REFRESH Buttons and make your Gamma Adjustments (if you are not using Auto-Send, you need to Press SEND on any Channel you change). Repeat for other Gamma Points (1-9) if desired.

There is currently no tool that allows you to view, edit, refresh and save all Gamma Points on one screen at the same time. My goal was always to support this and that is why the Gamma Window is separate from the main ControlCAL Window with the current Interface.

I know there is not room for it currently, but if/when ;) you make the new interface and if it's possible it would be great if Drive Mode were also accessible via CC.
Wolfy, I will check to see if that Control is available via Serial.

On a side note... not much in Development, I've been very busy with some family things/recent changes and our Daughter's last few weeks of school (13 year old)...:rolleyes:

-Shawn

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, I will check to see if that Control is available via Serial.Cheers!

On a side note... not much in Development, I've been very busy with some family things/recent changes and our Daughter's last few weeks of school (13 year old)...:rolleyes:

-ShawnNo worries mate, the family always comes first, even if it's a teenage daughter. ;)

BTW, I have to still my curiosity so I just purchased a i1 Pro. When it arrives I will finally know if my issues are from the Display 2/LT or if it is some other reason. I won't be calibrating any more until it arrives and then I will have to get used to a new meter. I'll be reporting my findings as soon as I have had time to do a first session and a follow up the next day.

Don't know how long the shipping will take, it said 1-2 weeks, but I will still be checking in here if something needs testing. Wish me luck, I hope I haven't thrown a bunch of money down the drain. I hope to finally be completely satisfied with my calibration hardware and software... the software is good though. :D

[Turbe]

Anyone wish to comment on a new Member's calibration results? :D

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=707&postcount=62

[mdfire]

So, how many others (at least the Users/Members who actually Post :( ) feel this is a feature (Export/Import or Save/Load Control Values) that is needed ASAP?

I think this would be an important upgrade. It doesnt take much to screw up a lot of hard work with a couple of minor adjustments. Being able to import/revert to previous settings would be a big benefit.

Im reluctant to make any more changes to my settings at the minute. Needs work on the primary/secondary colours.

[Turbe]

Wolfy and GorGorBey, did you two get your I1 Pro's yet?

[Wolfy]

Nope, not me anyway. Got a message that they were out of stock. Will hopefully ship next week and then it can take 2 weeks more to get here and by that time I will be working long hours all through summer to keep my studies financed so I have no idea how much time I will have for calibration concerns. :(

I'm jinxed, I have had to wait a long time every time I have ordered a new toy lately. ;)

[Turbe]

I was told the same thing, out of stock..... :(

[Wolfy]

Got a message today that my i1 Pro has now been sent. I hope that it only takes a week or less to arrive... :)

[GorGorBey]

Wolfy and GorGorBey, did you two get your I1 Pro's yet?

Yep :)

I received the new I1PRO Saturday morning.

I tested it. Everything was ok....

The ControlCal software is working fine (I redo a calibration from the beginning with the b18 release)

I found no issues during a 2 hours test.

This time I reached the perfection (REC601 format...)

[mdfire]

Yep :)

I received the new I1PRO Saturday morning.

I tested it. Everything was ok....

The ControlCal software is working fine (I redo a calibration from the beginning with the b18 release)

I found no issues during a 2 hours test.

This time I reached the perfection (REC601 format...)

Awesome results GorGorBey

One question for you. At the weekend I was testing and got 10IRE with Delta E of about 2. Everything else was under 3-4 except IRE 40 which spiked to almost 8. Nothing I could do would resolve it and in the end I had to sacrafice 10IRE to bring it down again. Is this normal?

[mdfire]

Yep :)

I received the new I1PRO Saturday morning.

I tested it. Everything was ok....

The ControlCal software is working fine (I redo a calibration from the beginning with the b18 release)

I found no issues during a 2 hours test.

This time I reached the perfection (REC601 format...)

One other thing... are you going to post the sequence you used to get those results;)

[GorGorBey]

Awesome results GorGorBey

One question for you. At the weekend I was testing and got 10IRE with Delta E of about 2. Everything else was under 3-4 except IRE 40 which spiked to almost 8. Nothing I could do would resolve it and in the end I had to sacrafice 10IRE to bring it down again. Is this normal?

The measure at 10 IRE is not accurate. So don't bother with Delta E at this IRE (with an I1PRO measure start to be valid at 20 IRE)

You can play on the gamma value (by color) to correct a invalid RVB curbe. Did you try that ?

Can you post your file before and after your last modification ?

[mdfire]

The measure at 10 IRE is not accurate. So don't bother with Delta E at this IRE (with an I1PRO measure start to be valid at 20 IRE)

You can play on the gamma value (by color) to correct a invalid RVB curbe. Did you try that ?

Can you post your file before and after your last modification ?

Here they are. As you can see I got marginal improvements in the greyscale but my gamma curve is tailing off at the higher IRE's.

I havent really attempted adjusting the Colour yet, hence the reason for asking which procedures you used. Im not using the eye one pro just the LT.

[GorGorBey]

Here they are. As you can see I got marginal improvements in the greyscale but my gamma curve is tailing off at the higher IRE's.

I havent really attempted adjusting the Colour yet, hence the reason for asking which procedures you used. Im not using the eye one pro just the LT.

I prefer the second one...

You should be able to improve your curves (perhaps try to increase Low Green +1 or decrease Low Blue by 1)...

Nevertheless you need to start with CIE Diagram because these changes will have big impacts on RVB Curves, then you adjust gamma (first with Luminosity and Contrast secondly by Colour) and finally you modify RVB values...

[mdfire]

I prefer the second one...

You should be able to improve your curves (perhaps try to increase Low Green +1 or decrease Low Blue by 1)...

Nevertheless you need to start with CIE Diagram because these changes will have big impacts on RVB Curves, then you adjust gamma (first with Luminosity and Contrast secondly by Colour) and finally you modify RVB values...

Your procedure is the complete opposite to all the advice on the boards. Still your results are impressive so I will give it a try on another input at the weekend.

Shawn, any sign of the import/export settings upgrade?

[pppp1]

Sorry for these questions but this is my first time using anything like this:

What's RS232? How do you connect computer and TV? Do i need a special cable? How does it work?

[Wolfy]

Your procedure is the complete opposite to all the advice on the boards. Still your results are impressive so I will give it a try on another input at the weekend.

Shawn, any sign of the import/export settings upgrade?Don't get too hung up on results in the charts, they are really only an indication and especially when using low end equipment you are more likely adjusting against errors in the readings than actual errors in the Pioneer G8. Thus, if you achieve a perfect result in the graphs you have in reality only achieved a worse picture quality than you started with.

Using a Display 2/LT (or indeed a i1 Pro) you should as much as possible not move the Pioneer's primary colors using the TV's Color Management controls. This is not only me saying so, but the consensus of a few professional calibrators with high end equipment that I have asked regarding this. Pioneer's primary colors are close to standard and should require only very small adjustment if any at all and you should always keep looking at real material during calibration so as not to get too focused on results in a chart. Also remember that the CIE chart in particular only tells you part of the story.

Anyway, proper procedure during calibration should, IMHO, be:

Black level adjustment (Brightness)
Reference White level adjustment (Contrast)
Primary Colors gamut, check and adjust if necessary (I would just leave it as is or only make very small adjustments)
Gray scale adjustment
Gamma adjustment if necessary (should not require much if any if you leave Color Management alone, and also remembering that errors in either measurements and software calculations can be the reason for graphs not looking perfect)
Secondary Colors, check and adjust if necessary (same as for primary colors, I would leave as is or only make very small adjustment)
Check primary colors again and adjust if necessary
Start over from 4
Start over from 1 and if all is OK then you are finished

[GorGorBey]

Your procedure is the complete opposite to all the advice on the boards. Still your results are impressive so I will give it a try on another input at the weekend.

Shawn, any sign of the import/export settings upgrade?

It's true...The calibration process is different...

It works fine on the Pioneer...

[Wolfy]

Sorry for these questions but this is my first time using anything like this:

What's RS232? How do you connect computer and TV? Do i need a special cable? How does it work?RS232 is a serial interface used to connect the TV to the computer and vice versa. Yes, you need a special cable to connect the computer to the TV. Either a straight (i.e. not a crossed one) serial cable with DB9 (9 pin) female to female connectors or by using a gender changer male-to-female on one end of a cable with female to male connectors.

Or you could use a USB adapter, look in this thread (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29).

Good luck! :)

[GorGorBey]

Don't get too hung up on results in the charts, they are really only an indication and especially when using low end equipment you are more likely adjusting against errors in the readings than actual errors in the Pioneer G8. Thus, if you achieve a perfect result in the graphs you have in reality only achieved a worse picture quality than you started with.

Using a Display 2/LT (or indeed a i1 Pro) you should as much as possible not move the Pioneer's primary colors using the TV's Color Management controls. This is not only me saying so, but the consensus of a few professional calibrators with high end equipment that I have asked regarding this. Pioneer's primary colors are close to standard and should require only very small adjustment if any at all and you should always keep looking at real material during calibration so as not to get too focused on results in a chart. Also remember that the CIE chart in particular only tells you part of the story.

Anyway, proper procedure during calibration should, IMHO, be:

Black level adjustment (Brightness)
Reference White level adjustment (Contrast)
Primary Colors gamut, check and adjust if necessary (I would just leave it as is or only make very small adjustments)
Gray scale adjustment
Gamma adjustment if necessary (should not require much if any if you leave Color Management alone, and also remembering that errors in either measurements and software calculations can be the reason for graphs not looking perfect)
Secondary Colors, check and adjust if necessary (same as for primary colors, I would leave as is or only make very small adjustment)
Check primary colors again and adjust if necessary
Start over from 4
Start over from 1 and if all is OK then you are finished


I Totally agree with this procedure but I saw that my procedure is better on my particular display (I follow your procedure to calibrate other displays like projectors....)

Regarding software, I find that results are very similar (The difference is ridiculous whatever the software...)

I don't know why you bought an I1PRO if you think like that...

[Wolfy]

I Totally agree with this procedure but I saw that my procedure is better on my particular display (I follow your procedure to calibrate other displays like projectors....)Yes, and the reason it's different with the Pioneers is because their controls are flawed as soon as you use the Color Management to make adjustments to the TV's inherent colors. Don't you find it peculiar that you have a very "well behaved" gray scale until you use the Color Management controls?

Regarding software, I find that results are very similar (The difference is ridiculous whatever the software...)Yes, by software I mean the entire chain, measurement software, software in the TV, software in your player, etc.

I don't know why you buy an I1PRO if you think like that...Primarily I bought the i1 Pro because I want to increase repeatability between measurements. I got fed up doing a calibration only to find that the day after I would have to change settings in the TV to get similar results.

Don't gt me wrong here, I'm not saying that calibration is useless or not even that it is not necessary, it definitely is and especially with a great display like the Pioneer Kuro. I just caution anyone to use results in graphs as their only benchmark for calibration results and especially since the Pioneer TV both have flaws in the way its controls are implemented and since the Pioneer TV does not include a full fledged Color Management System, but only part of one.

Are you a pro calibrator, GorGorBey (not trying to be a jerk here, I'm genuinely interested)? Have you been following what has been written on forums in particular in regards to the flawed nature of the Pioneer Color Management implementation?

[GorGorBey]

Yes, and the reason it's different with the Pioneers is because their controls are flawed as soon as you use the Color Management to make adjustments to the TV's inherent colors. Don't you find it peculiar that you have a very "well behaved" gray scale until you use the Color Management controls?

Yes, by software I mean the entire chain, measurement software, software in the TV, software in your player, etc.

Primarily I bought the i1 Pro because I want to increase repeatability between measurements. I got fed up doing a calibration only to find that the day after I would have to change settings in the TV to get similar results.

Don't gt me wrong here, I'm not saying that calibration is useless or not even that it is not necessary, it definitely is and especially with a great display like the Pioneer Kuro. I just caution anyone to use results in graphs as their only benchmark for calibration results and especially since the Pioneer TV both have flaws in the way its controls are implemented and since the Pioneer TV does not include a full fledged Color Management System, but only part of one.

Are you a pro calibrator, GorGorBey (not trying to be a jerk here, I'm genuinely interested)? Have you been following what has been written on forums in particular in regards to the flawed nature of the Pioneer Color Management implementation?

Can you give me some links regarding the flawed nature of the Pioneer Color Management implementation ?

[Wolfy]

Can you give me some links regarding the flawed nature of the Pioneer Color Management implementation ?Here you go, a few that I found with a quick search (I haven't kept track of all posts that I have read):

This is regarding the previous generation, but I have used both and the symptoms are the same. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10126582#post10126582)

W. Jeff Meier has redone many Pioneer Elite calibrations that has been flawed using Pioneer ISF C3 and he has a measurement tool ($24,000) far superior to i1 Pro and also a huge amount of experience. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14051838#post14051838)

Second one from Jeff. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14018531#post14018531)

An ISF calibrator. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14005061#post14005061)

Doug Blackburn, ISF calibrator and writer for the renowned Widescreen Review. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14012197#post14012197)

Finally, here is my own investigation into what happens when using Pioneer's Color Management to move colors. (http://www.component.se/forum/index.php?showtopic=8566) It's in Swedish, but you can use Google's translation pages or just look at the pictures. Personally I think that they speak for themselves.

I could probably find more and besides this I have numerous discussion with experienced people via both e-mail and PM, both Swedish and English (not saved though) and the consensus is the same.

I would like to reiterate that this does not make calibrating the Pioneer Kuros useless or arbitrary, but one should IMHO definitely be conservative when using Pioneer's Color Management.

[mdfire]

Have to say that is my experience. Touch the CMS and everything else is screwed up.

[GorGorBey]

Here you go, a few that I found with a quick search (I haven't kept track of all posts that I have read):

This is regarding the previous generation, but I have used both and the symptoms are the same. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10126582#post10126582)

W. Jeff Meier has redone many Pioneer Elite calibrations that has been flawed using Pioneer ISF C3 and he has a measurement tool ($24,000) far superior to i1 Pro and also a huge amount of experience. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14051838#post14051838)

Second one from Jeff. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14018531#post14018531)

An ISF calibrator. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14005061#post14005061)

Doug Blackburn, ISF calibrator and writer for the renowned Widescreen Review. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14012197#post14012197)

Finally, here is my own investigation into what happens when using Pioneer's Color Management to move colors. (http://www.component.se/forum/index.php?showtopic=8566) It's in Swedish, but you can use Google's translation pages or just look at the pictures. Personally I think that they speak for themselves.

I could probably find more and besides this I have numerous discussion with experienced people via both e-mail and PM, both Swedish and English (not saved though) and the consensus is the same.

I would like to reiterate that this does not make calibrating the Pioneer Kuros useless or arbitrary, but one should IMHO definitely be conservative when using Pioneer's Color Management.

Thank you...

I quickly read these posts and I would like to make some comments:

I think that, most of the time, they talked about 408XD or 508XD models (big improvements has been done on the full HD model regarding Colour Management and impacts on RVB Curves. I'm sure that you know that...)

Secondly, in my particular case (Full HD) I was able to reach perfect results without scarifying RVB curves or gamma curve... It’s true that perhaps on your model it’s not a good idea to modify Gamut…

The last point is measure... Somebody mention that except with some expensive instrument you can't measure Colour.... Do you trust him? It perhaps the truth but a measure at 1 or 2 delta E is enough for me…

They talked more about ISF interest...And these discussions was very interesting...

[Wolfy]

...I think that, most of the time, they talked about 408XD or 508XD models (big improvements has been done on the full HD model regarding Colour Management and impacts on RVB Curves. I'm sure that you know that...)

Secondly, in my particular case (Full HD) I was able to reach perfect results without scarifying RVB curves or gamma curve... It’s true that perhaps on your model it’s not a good idea to modify Gamut…Yes, good points and I have mentioned this before, if not here then on other forums.

If it is true that there is no issue at all with Full HD Kuro then that should also be true with the new G9 Pioneers that are starting to come out. I am still skeptical since Pioneer didn't manage to fix this between G7 and G8 and the same issue were there then and they haven't, to my knowledge, added any functionality, but have they now fixed this issue then it will become apparent soon enough when calibrators get their hands on the new G9 sets.

You still don't have a complete CMS though only a part of one. I'm not trying to take anything away from your results. If it works for you then good for you, I would be very happy if Pioneer have fixed this problem.

The last point is measure... Somebody mention that except with some expensive instrument you can't measure Colour.... Do you trust him? It perhaps the truth but a measure at 1 or 2 delta E is enough for me…Well, yes and no. He has great equipment and is very knowledgeable, but it's quite apparent that there is an agenda there, even though there is truth in that the result you get is largely due to the quality of your tools and the experience and knowledge of the one using the tools.

I agree with you that a i1 Pro is for all intents and purposes enough for an enthusiast. It would make absolutely no sense in buying a tool for $24.000 to calibrate equipment costing less than that. ;) If I had a Home Theater for several $100.000 then I might consider one...

They talked more about ISF interest...And these discussions was very interesting...Agreed, just another reminder that we shouldn't focus too much on tools. Calibration is part science, part art and no tools in the world can change that.

Amongst others, one good point was regarding the locked nature of Pioneer's ISF modes, something I at first thought was a good thing, but for calibration of the tuner or a digital set top box for example, this is really a bad solution since there is such a huge difference between programming content that there is no one correct calibration setting. You really need to be able to make fine tuning while watching and I don't feel like watching a 2 hour show of any kind where my ISF cal. is way off.

[mdfire]

Amongst others, one good point was regarding the locked nature of Pioneer's ISF modes, something I at first thought was a good thing, but for calibration of the tuner or a digital set top box for example, this is really a bad solution since there is such a huge difference between programming content that there is no one correct calibration setting. You really need to be able to make fine tuning while watching and I don't feel like watching a 2 hour show of any kind where my ISF cal. is way off.

One of the articles suggested that it was better to calibrate the USER settings rather than the ISF. Must admit that as soon as I got controlcal I got stuck straight into ISF and never bothered much with the USER settings which I previously had. Anyone done a comparison?

[Wolfy]

One of the articles suggested that it was better to calibrate the USER settings rather than the ISF. Must admit that as soon as I got controlcal I got stuck straight into ISF and never bothered much with the USER settings which I previously had. Anyone done a comparison?From what I have read and measured myself all of the EU models --8XD suffer from a slight loss in shadow detail at 10IRE. I found the ISF modes with the 9 point controls better in a side-by-side comparison for this reason, but it's not a huge difference.

It will be interesting to see if I get the same with i1 Pro measurements and the Low Level Handling that is soon to be released with CalMAN 3.1 public beta. If so, the only way I can see to rectify that is by using the 9 point controls to boost IRE10 so then the ISF mode should be superior to User.

Other than that it may well be that User is better given that you don't touch the Color Management and that you can fine tune if you need to, e.g. for DTV, HDTV.

[mdfire]

From what I have read and measured myself all of the EU models --8XD suffer from a slight loss in shadow detail at 10IRE. I found the ISF modes with the 9 point controls better in a side-by-side comparison for this reason, but it's not a huge difference.

It will be interesting to see if I get the same with i1 Pro measurements and the Low Level Handling that is soon to be released with CalMAN 3.1 public beta. If so, the only way I can see to rectify that is by using the 9 point controls to boost IRE10 so then the ISF mode should be superior to User.

Other than that it may well be that User is better given that you don't touch the Color Management and that you can fine tune if you need to, e.g. for DTV, HDTV.

One problem I found with adjusting any of the user settings is that when you enter the home menu, the screen brightens slightly. The pioneer manual actually mentions this. Surely this affects readings when calibrating. This doesnt happen in ISF mode.

[GorGorBey]

Yes, good points and I have mentioned this before, if not here then on other forums.

If it is true that there is no issue at all with Full HD Kuro then that should also be true with the new G9 Pioneers that are starting to come out. I am still skeptical since Pioneer didn't manage to fix this between G7 and G8 and the same issue were there then and they haven't, to my knowledge, added any functionality, but have they now fixed this issue then it will become apparent soon enough when calibrators get their hands on the new G9 sets.

You still don't have a complete CMS though only a part of one. I'm not trying to take anything away from your results. If it works for you then good for you, I would be very happy if Pioneer have fixed this problem.

Well, yes and no. He has great equipment and is very knowledgeable, but it's quite apparent that there is an agenda there, even though there is truth in that the result you get is largely due to the quality of your tools and the experience and knowledge of the one using the tools.

I agree with you that a i1 Pro is for all intents and purposes enough for an enthusiast. It would make absolutely no sense in buying a tool for $24.000 to calibrate equipment costing less than that. ;) If I had a Home Theater for several $100.000 then I might consider one...

Agreed, just another reminder that we shouldn't focus too much on tools. Calibration is part science, part art and no tools in the world can change that.

Amongst others, one good point was regarding the locked nature of Pioneer's ISF modes, something I at first thought was a good thing, but for calibration of the tuner or a digital set top box for example, this is really a bad solution since there is such a huge difference between programming content that there is no one correct calibration setting. You really need to be able to make fine tuning while watching and I don't feel like watching a 2 hour show of any kind where my ISF cal. is way off.

I agree with you…

I will give you some examples:

- The first time I calibrated this display I reached perfect gamma and temperature curves. Strangely, the luminosity was closed to 57 FL at 100 IRE…It’s obvious that it’s too high. I should wear sun glasses to watch a movie….Now the luminosity is closed to 47 which is much better…

- I don’t agree that the target for gamma should be always 2.2….The only way to determine the target is too watch movies in dark scenes…Depending on the display I will change the target…

- Gamut, Tint and Saturations settings need to be set by viewing movies and sequences (I use Cartons and movies for that…) during the calibration.

I will say that results are a pre requisite to a good calibration but it's not sufficient...

[Wolfy]

One problem I found with adjusting any of the user settings is that when you enter the home menu, the screen brightens slightly. The pioneer manual actually mentions this. Surely this affects readings when calibrating. This doesnt happen in ISF mode.Yes, but it dims down quickly after that and AFAIK only affects the black level. I haven't noticed any real impact while calibrating, but then I haven't investigated it thoroughly.

[GorGorBey]

I agree with you…

I will give you some examples:

- The first time I calibrated this display I reached perfect gamma and temperature curves. Strangely, the luminosity was closed to 57 FL at 100 IRE…It’s obvious that it’s too high. I should wear sun glasses to watch a movie….Now the luminosity is closed to 47 which is much better…

- I don’t agree that the target for gamma should be always 2.2….The only way to determine the target is too watch movies in dark scenes…Depending on the display I will change the target…

- Gamut, Tint and Saturations settings need to be set by viewing movies and sequences (I use Cartons and movies for that…) during the calibration.

I will say that results are a pre requisite to a good calibration but it's not sufficient...

I just would like to add that I find very interesting to be able to calibrate Day and Night Settings....That's the interest of the ISF feature on the Pioneer....
If else the user settings gives similar results (but the RVB curves will be less accurate...)

[mdfire]

I just would like to add that I find very interesting to be able to calibrate Day and Night Settings....That's the interest of the ISF feature on the Pioneer....
If else the user settings gives similar results (but the RVB curves will be less accurate...)


I agree... its easy to lose sight of the fact that we are all just enthusiasts with an interest in seeing how things work. If you like what you see then thats the main thing:D

[Turbe]

ControlCAL v1.41 Beta 3 Build 19 Now Available (first Public Beta Version for 1.41):

You will need to Download ControlCAL (v1.41 Beta 3 Build 19) and the new Display Profile Versions.

v1.41 Beta:
Build 19 - 06/20/2008
+Beta 3 Released - First Public Beta Version for 1.41.
+EDIT Mode now Enabled. Create, Save and Share your own ControlCAL Display Profiles.
+Fixed Spelling Error in C3 P1 Profile "Management".
+Changed ISF C3 Profiles File Names (deleted ISF).
+The Display Profiles (Download Link available in Post#1 of this Thread) are now a separate ZIP download from the ControlCAL application. SEE: ControlCAL v1.41 Beta 3 Build 19+ (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1) to Download the main ControlCAL Application.

[joestefano]

Shawn,
Are there any instructions on the use of the "edit function" ?
Thanks
Joe

[Turbe]

Hi Joe,

Check HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2&postcount=2) (Post #2 +).

I still need to update those Posts, but that should get you started. If you have any questions about creating Profiles, feel free to Post them in the Thread above.

Also, you may want to Download the Mitsubishi Profile, it's unlocked so you can Edit it and use it as an example (Link below):

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43


-Shawn

[Wolfy]

I've downloaded beta3 build 19 and the profiles and tested that I am able to control my TV. As expected everything is OK so far. I'll report back when I have had some time to play some more with it. ;)

[pppp1]

I can't see any new pioneer 8g profiles. I just downloaded the v1.0 zip file from post 1 and the new cc build 19. That's it right?

[Wolfy]

As far as I can tell, yes. The profiles are now separate and should then be version 1.0. That's the files I downloaded anyway. ;)

[Turbe]

I can't see any new pioneer 8g profiles. I just downloaded the v1.0 zip file from post 1 and the new cc build 19. That's it right?

Yes, that's it for the 8G, minor changes to the CDP File Format but you would not be able to load the older profiles in Build 19 (an error message would show that the CDP File is Corrupt).

The 9G Profiles should be available this weekend (perhaps later today).

Please do Post/Report any problems (hopefully several of you will test the 8G Profiles again with Build 19).. :D - Thanks Wolfy for that Test Feedback.

-Shawn

[joestefano]

Shawn
Just tried B19 everything looks good so far. All my inputs work fine.
I'm still having an issue with resarting my CALMAN even with the new V3.1
It's driving me nuts..

Joe

[Turbe]

I know there are several others using CalMAN.... are others having this same problem (restarting CalMAN after exiting CalMAN and with ControlCAL running)? Please post if this works for you or you are having the same issue as Joe....


Thanks.

[Wolfy]

Works without problems for me. I have tried the following:


Start ControlCAL beta3 build19.
Start CalMAN v3.1 RC.
Restore Data, change layouts, etc.
Close CalMAN v3.1 RC.
Restart CalMAN 3.1 RC, while ControlCAL is still running.
-----

Start CalMAN v3.1 RC.
Start ControlCAL beta3 build19.
Restore Data, change layouts, etc.
Close CalMAN v3.1 RC.
Restart CalMAN 3.1 RC, while ControlCAL is still running.
No issues with CalMAN restarting correctly either way.

[Turbe]

Joe,

What Symantec Products do you have (installed - not running and installed - running)?

[joestefano]

Shawn,
The one I know is running is "Norton 360"

You know every time I complain about this problem it stops. Maybe I'm just Crazy.

Thanks for your time
Joe

[venkatesh_m]

Hello to all,

I'm new to this forum. I'm based way out here in Malaysia in Asia and am attempting calibrate my Pioneer 428XG (Asian version, similar to European 428XD with analogue tuner). I have ordered a EyeOne Pro with Calman that is on the way to Malaysia. While waiting for the hardware, with Shawn's permission I loaded ControlCal to start to understand the software. I have 1 question.

To those who are using ControlCal with Calman, are you doing it all from 1 laptop? Are there any minimum requirements for the laptop. I am using a Dell Latitude D600, Intel 1.8GHz.

Thanks

[venkatesh_m]

Hello,

Another error I get very frequently when I open the software is an error like below:

Failed to initialize drawing surface. Please check that your graphic card meets the minimum requirements and the drivers are up to date. If your graphics card has low memory try switching to a lower resolution.

This error happens 90% at startup. Sometimes it does not occur. The laptop I have has a Mobility Radeon 9000 card. What is the minimum requirement needed for ControlCal?

[Turbe]

Hello,

Another error I get very frequently when I open the software is an error like below:

Failed to initialize drawing surface. Please check that your graphic card meets the minimum requirements and the drivers are up to date. If your graphics card has low memory try switching to a lower resolution.

This error happens 90% at startup. Sometimes it does not occur. The laptop I have has a Mobility Radeon 9000 card. What is the minimum requirement needed for ControlCal?

Do you have Microsoft DirectX 8 or later installed? What O/S is your laptop running?

I've only seen that error once, with a old machine that had an earlier version of DirectX installed (< DirectX 8).

.Shawn

[mdfire]

Shawn

Did a full test tonight with the new build. No probs whatsoever.

I will pm you with another question.

[venkatesh_m]

Do you have Microsoft DirectX 8 or later installed? What O/S is your laptop running?

I've only seen that error once, with a old machine that had an earlier version of DirectX installed (< DirectX 8).

.Shawn

Shawn,

I have Windows XP SP2, Direct X 9.0c, 1GB RAM, Mobility Radeon 9000, 32GB Memory. Display resolution 1400 X 1050.

Should be sufficient , correct?

The way I get around this is to change the resolution to 1024 X 768, start ControlCal and then change the resolution back to 1400 X 1050. Will this be ok?

[Turbe]

Shouldn't be a problem... it is interesting that you get that message sometimes though..

[mdfire]

Shawn

Trying to edit profile. Typing in password exactly as per pm. getting message 'Invalid Password'

[Turbe]

Shawn

Trying to edit profile. Typing in password exactly as per pm. getting message 'Invalid Password'

I'm sorry, I mis-understood your question... Since I can't publish the codes for the Pioneer C3 Modes, the Pioneer Display Profiles are locked so access to Edit Mode when they are loaded is restricted.

-Shawn

[mdfire]

How to you export a profile then to share settings?:confused:

[Turbe]

How to you export a profile then to share settings?:confused:

I have not added the option to save/export all the Control's Values (and then load/Import them back in). It has been suggested by several Users.

The Save Option in Edit Mode is to save the actual Display Profile. Let's say you had a Epson Projector that you used in addition to your Pioneer, but there was no Display Profile for ControlCAL. You could create your own Display Profile, Save it and upload it to the Forum and allow others to use it (Share it).... :D


-Shawn

[mdfire]

I have not added the option to save/export all the Control's Values (and then load/Import them back in). It has been suggested by several Users.

The Save Option in Edit Mode is to save the actual Display Profile. Let's say you had a Epson Projector that you used in addition to your Pioneer, but there was no Display Profile for ControlCAL. You could create your own Display Profile, Save it and upload it to the Forum and allow others to use it (Share it).... :D


-Shawn

Thanks for that

[Turbe]

Shawn, any sign of the import/export settings upgrade?

This feature is not in Build 19, I may final v1.41 and add this in the next Version... or, I may add it in v1.41... not sure yet.

[venkatesh_m]

Hi all,

Would like to report that I could establish communications using ControlCal to receive data from the plasma display. Will update more when my EyeOne Pro arrives so that I can calibrate and save the 2 additional profiles.

:)

[Turbe]

Hi all,

Would like to report that I could establish communications using ControlCal to receive data from the plasma display. Will update more when my EyeOne Pro arrives so that I can calibrate and save the 2 additional profiles.

:)

That's great, looking forward to your additional feedback on your Model.

-Shawn

[joestefano]

Shawn, where do I enter the start code so that when I start CC I go directly to The Pioneer Profile?

Joe

[Turbe]

Shawn, where do I enter the start code so that when I start CC I go directly to The Pioneer Profile?

Joe

Joe,

Add the Startup_Load= line in your ControlCAL.ini file (under [Profile]). Make sure you use the complete path to the Display Profile.


[Profile]
Forced_Wait_For=-1
Startup_Load=C:\YourProfile.cdp

[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=15


-Shawn

[joestefano]

Shawn,
Do you mean the "Note Pad" in the program folder?

[Turbe]

You can use Notepad to edit ControlCAL.ini if you want.

Just add the Startup_Load=PATH\ProfileName.cdp after Forced_Wait_For=

-Shawn

[HDCraig]

I have not added the option to save/export all the Control's Values (and then load/Import them back in). It has been suggested by several Users.



sorry i may have posted in the wrong thread (9G) but i was asking about this to

[pppp1]

I downloaded controlcal with the pioneer profiles about a month ago but haven't found the time to use it yet (still need to get a db9 cable to connect to the tv). i'm hoping to find some time in the next 2-3 weeks to start using it. before i start, what i want to know is this: from my experience in the past when i tried to calibrate movie mode with colorhcfr and the i1 to get gamma to 2.2 i always had to take brightness low and crash black detail. My question is how do i achieve a gamma of 2.2 with brightness set at +2, +3?

[joestefano]

Shawn,
Does the I1PRO attach to the screen with suction cups the same way as the Display 2 LT ?

Joe

[Wolfy]

Shawn,
Does the I1PRO attach to the screen with suction cups the same way as the Display 2 LT ?

JoeYes and No.

No, it has a holder with a counter weight. The holder has a foam (rubber foam?) ring similar to the D2/LT to keep ambient light from getting into the sensor, but no suction cups.

Yes, it does have another holder with a large suction cup, but this is for a CRT TV. I would never use that on a plasma TV.

[venkatesh_m]

EyeOne Pro can be attached to the PDP using the counter weight, suction cups will not work well on the 8G plasma's since the 1st layer is not technically glass. I use the counterweight to carry out calibrations.

[joestefano]

Where is the best deal on an I1PRO?

[Turbe]

Currently, I believe SpectraCal has the best deal (OEM I1 Pro):

http://www.spectracal.com/purchase.html

$649 (USD) but if you are interested, I think I can save you another $10 ($639 USD Total) - Just PM me.

-Shawn

[venkatesh_m]

That's great, looking forward to your additional feedback on your Model.

-Shawn

Quick update.

I managed to get down to doing some calibration on my EyeOne Pro and 428XG (Asian Model). I would like to confirm that ControlCal works perfectly fine. I managed to create ISFnight profile and tweak the gamma using the 9 point function. All buttons work. Still need to fine tune the settings to improve. I am using CalMan for my calibration.

Will report more when I have completed the calibration.

[Turbe]

Will report more when I have completed the calibration.

Great! :D

Please do post/attach your Calibration results/files.......


.

[iainrgibson]

Apologies if this is a dumb question...

I am starting out in calibration and have yet to use RS-232 an interface and the ControlCal software. I use Calman and have gone about as far as I can in the user menus of my display, and so ControlCal is the next frontier!

I have a Pioneer 428XD (UK model) and I've bought the necessary cables etc., but before I take the plunge, I just want to know -- is it possible to accidentally kill my display if I did the wrong thing? What about other manufacturers' displays? I am wondering if I should purchase business insurance before I start using RS-232 or service menu access for any displays.

Advice welcomed!

Thanks folks,
Iain

[Turbe]

Hi iainrgibson,

It's not a dumb question and has been asked before (see smkuro's posts):

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2&page=18

Pioneer has safeguards in place in the the ISFccc Interface and ControlCAL follows all of them (including full Pioneer Error Code Checking). One of these is the the 8 Minute timeout to leave the ISFccc mode and return automatically to Normal operation (not saving).

You cannot harm your Display by using the Controls in ControlCAL's ISFccc Display Profiles. Of course, ControlCAL does have a full terminal window (Advance Mode) where you could start typing random HEX Codes, obviously that is not recommended and I suggest you do not type in the Terminal Window and Press Enter (or any Terminal Program while connected to your Pioneer). You simply cannot do this by accident.

-S

[venkatesh_m]

Great! :D

Please do post/attach your Calibration results/files.......


.

Hi,

Attached are my results for ISF day calibration done using AVSHD709. I used both CalMan and HCFR, though they look slightly different. Pls let me know what I can do to improve.

[mdfire]

Hi,

Attached are my results for ISF day calibration done using AVSHD709. I used both CalMan and HCFR, though they look slightly different. Pls let me know what I can do to improve.

Those results are excellent, why do you want to improve. A delta E less than 3 means that any improvements are invisible to the human eye. Which probe are you using? why not post your flow procedure?

[venkatesh_m]

Those results are excellent, why do you want to improve. A delta E less than 3 means that any improvements are invisible to the human eye. Which probe are you using? why not post your flow procedure?

Thanks mdfire.

I use the EyeOne Pro with CalMan and HCFR.

My calibration flow was a hybrid from TomHuffman tutorial and Kal's Grayscale Calibration for dummies.

1. Set contrast using 100% white window (30-40ftL)
2. Set brightness using 10% white window (0.065 of 100% white window)
3. Set grayscale (10-90% white) using RGB high/low
4. Fine tune gamma using ISFccc interface with ControlCal:D
5. Adjust and check color/tint (Red 21%, Green 71%, Blue 8%)
6. Adjust CMS for CIE chart (I did not do this)
7. Check grayscale and adjust if necessary

My concerns were that on the RGB charts the reds are slightly high. Colour Temperature is slightly lower than 6500 because of this. This is my 1st time attempting calibration. Also on the gamma curve blues tend to drop off at 100%. I am wondering if my contrast is too high or low.

My final contrast was 33. Brightness was +1.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

[Turbe]

I posted Tips and Suggested Options in this POST (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6&postcount=2) (middle of the page).

:D

-Shawn

[Com]

Hi,
I have question on color space tha why we have to set the color space : 2 ?
It seam to me that after setting this number of color space,
the color look more yellow/brown

Need your advise

Com

[Turbe]

You don't have to do anything you don't like of course..

I will say that I was told directly from Pioneer that the Pioneer ISFccc Memories are meant to be calibrated using Colorspace 2.

Also, from the posts I've read, most users and Professionals use Colorspace 2, though I do remember seeing some debate on this.

-Shawn

[venkatesh_m]

Hi,
I have question on color space tha why we have to set the color space : 2 ?
It seam to me that after setting this number of color space,
the color look more yellow/brown

Need your advise

Com

Hello,

I have been calibrating in Colour Space 2 and post calibration the picture looks great. I have not seen a yellow/brown tint on my pictures. Do you see this in colour space 2 or is it the whites that look slightly different. This might be because D65 white is not really the whites that we are used to seeing.

[Com]

You don't have to do anything you don't like of course..

I will say that I was told directly from Pioneer that the Pioneer ISFccc Memories are meant to be calibrated using Colorspace 2.

Also, from the posts I've read, most users and Professionals use Colorspace 2, though I do remember seeing some debate on this.

-Shawn


Thank for your comment,
It seam to me that it happen when I compare the color from the Color space = 1 mode and Color space = 2 mode
I try more and give you the result

Com

[Turbe]

Update:

+v1.1 8G Profiles Wait_For changed to 400ms (from 500).

This Profile Version does require ControlCAL v1.41 RC1 (Build 20).


-Turbe

[joestefano]

Has anyone else experienced that after a lengthy calibration session, say 20-30 min. with CC running that the low IRE's ie: 10,20,30 completely lose their settings? They go almost all red. I have to shut down and restart the session to get things back to normal.
Joe

[venkatesh_m]

Has anyone else experienced that after a lengthy calibration session, say 20-30 min. with CC running that the low IRE's ie: 10,20,30 completely lose their settings? They go almost all red. I have to shut down and restart the session to get things back to normal.
Joe

Hello,

I use Calman and CC as well. I have seen CC lose the settings but I assumed that it was due to the 7min no activity timeout that Shawn mentioned. It has happened to me twice, both times after I completed grayscale and after starting the gamut calibration. Both times the color scale reset to a previously saved number. Not seen the same in Low IRE.

[joestefano]

Hi all
here are some pictures from outside my villa in Aruba.
I'm still reading and thinking Calibration. Pathetic right?????

[Turbe]

Hi all
here are some pictures from outside my villa in Aruba.
I'm still reading and thinking Calibration. Pathetic right?????

:D

How could you be thinking about calibration..... ? :)

[Wolfy]

Thank for your comment,
It seam to me that it happen when I compare the color from the Color space = 1 mode and Color space = 2 mode
I try more and give you the result

ComUnless you have already done so, you will need to compare post calibration results from using the different Color Space settings. For one thing, the different Color Space settings will absolutely require different gray scale calibration settings.

[pppp1]

When should i expect to receive the activation codes for the new version?
I was hoping to receive the code so i could use controlcal this week since it's the first time that i have free time to use controlcal.

[joestefano]

Does anyone know what the button on the side of the i1PRO is used for? Anyone using the CalMAN Pattern Generator?

[Turbe]

Joe, since I know you are using CalMAN 3.1, you can "define a function-key equivalent action for the button on the i1Pro."

In regards to the pattern generator, does your laptop have HDMI?

[Turbe]

Still haven't used controlcal, i need a usb-serial adapter, tried a few shops today and i didn't find one :mad:, i guess i'll need to buy one online :(. However i had a go at...........
Can you post your actual LX608D settings? Are you targeting SMPTE-C or Rec709 for color as the red and blue points are inside the triangle?

Since he didn't use the ISFccc Interface and to keep the thread on subject, I moved his two Posts and D-Nice's reply to a new Thread here:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66


I do recommend the Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29). The Sewell USB to Serial Adapter (http://sewelldirect.com/usbtoserial.asp) appears to work well though I can't provide much support for it.


.

[GorGorBey]

Hello everyone,

I just back from vacation and I just download the last release.

Is there a new activation key for this release (for profile...) ?

thanks in advance.

[iainrgibson]

Hi folks,

I've just downloaded the latest ControlCAL and the Pioneer 8G profiles, and have used my activation key. When I try to use the software I keep getting the "Display's ISF level is not compatible with this profile" error. Not even the Power On button works. I'm using a Toshiba laptop running Vista and connecting to the diplay via a Newlink USB to serial converter and a straight-through serial cable. (Of course, I bought a null modem cable first time which is no use!) Is the most likely problem that the USB-serial coverter isn't working? Should I buy the Keyspan converter?

Thanks for any help,
Iain

[Turbe]

Is the most likely problem that the USB-serial coverter isn't working? Should I buy the Keyspan converter?


I would double check the Port assigned to your USB-to-Serial Adapter and the Port Settings in ControlCAL and your Display's Serial Port settings. You would also want to double check your cable.

There have been problems with some of these adapters (they are not mimicking a Serial port 100%).

I know the Keyspan (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29) works and that is the only USB-to-Serial adapter I support. B&H does ship internationally.

You should be able to Power On/Off the Display via Serial if everything is configured properly. If you can't do that, I wouldn't even attempt to use the other Controls and Buttons.

[iainrgibson]

Everything seems to be working fine now! I closed everything down and began again using a different usb socket and hey presto.

It's so good not needing the remote control and going through all those clunky menus for colour temp etc. -- great work Shawn!

[Turbe]

Rule of thumb is to only touch the Green High/Low controls as a last resort.

Thought this would help some of you...

[venkatesh_m]

Hi All,

Saw D-Nice comment on not adjusting Green High/Lows and I do not do that, since something has to be left as reference. Do any of you adjust the green in the 9 point grayscale? I have never needed to but would this be a no-no as well?

[Turbe]

Hey, quick question. What exactly is I-P Mode on Pioneers? Also, what should this be set at. Haven't really seen any documentation regarding that. Thx in advance for the response.

Regards,
Stephen Cooper

Hi Stephen :hiya:

I-P Mode provides optimum conversion from interlace signals to progressive signals:

1 (Motion) optimizes video images
2 (Standard) standard setting
3 (Still) optimizes still images

:thumbup:

[joestefano]

What have you guys found to be the best procedure for adjusting the 9 point grayscle ie: what settings do you start at, when do you adjust it, ect
Thanks in advance

[Turbe]

Most start out with just 0's... Just move them a few clicks only (1/2 in either direction to start with)...

[Rod#S]

First post here and I'm very late to the game guys and got my PRO-150FD calibrated this week and it looks great but I'm having it redone done due to a number of dumb ass moves on my part. I was so excited to get going that as I was in the process of starting to zero out the noise reduction controls me and my calibrator noticed that the gray scale controls were not working as they kept producing an error when we adjusted them. Once we figured out to set the Color Temp to Manual (i.e 6) I forgot about the zeroing out process and we got down to business. In the end the tv looked great however, the next day as I went in to continue to zero out the noise reduction etc. I remembered what some of the controls on the Profile 2 page actually did so as I was turing them off the picture totally changed i.e Setting ACL, Black Level and DRE from their default settings to 0 (Off) had a noticeable impact on the picture. So since we calibrated with all of these crap settings engaged I figured we didn't get the most out of the set so we have to do it again, which makes me sick because it's not cheap. I also noticed we calibrated in Color Space 1 and isn't that bad idea?

Any suggestions would be apprecited so I can apply that knoweledge next week. Things I would be interested in knowing are which settings should be turned off, of the ones that don't have Off values, what is the desired value to set those at, what is the preferred Color Space and is there actually any controls that perhaps should be turned on. And is there anything we should not mess with at all.

One thing I found odd, I want the ISF modes for 2 of my inputs that we I calibrate
to run in Dot-by-Dot mode and looking at the ControlCal intructions the 0 value (dot-by-dot) states it only applies to the FHD model and indeed it does produce an error when I try to set it to 0 however when I use the 2 modes for the 2 inputs I get my dot-by-dot mode. What's happening there? It is giving me what I want but I'm just curious how it is doing it.

Thanks

[wl1]

10 months ago I calibrated my PDP428XD with great success and satisfaction (many hours of fun too!). I used HCFR, Eye One LT and ControlCal.

I had finally put my Eye One sensor away, and started really enjoying the movies. Until my display started to switch itself off, and flashing the red led 8 times. A quick power off, and power on soon put this right, but it began to get more frequent. The experts were called in, and 1 week later my Plasma had a new screen.

I do NOT think this failure had anything to do with calibration AT all. But I am now in the process of running the screen in again, and waiting for 200hrs to come up before readjusting. But I was curious as to how much different the new screen was - with the ISF settings still intact.

In talking to the service engineer, he mentioned that my TV had received new firmware too. One change would be that I wouldn't be able to access the service menu without a special remote control.

I used the HCFR and Eye One, and could see there was plenty of room for improvement. I tried using my remote control to get into the service menu, and found that I could (the one to read the number of hours etc). But when I tried to use Controlcal, I got the following error

"No Value(s) and/or Invalid Value(s) Received from Display for Controls in Red!"

This was using the exact same cable that had previously worked (RS232 with straight through). I even tried a cable from work which had previously worked too. Admittedly, I had reloaded the software on the laptop, so maybe this is the problem. Or am I locked out with the new firmware?

Can anybody suggest best ways forward, as when the 200hrs are up, I will be keen to re-calibrate.

[Turbe]

:hiya:

Well, what Controls are in Red.. the RGB High/Low Controls? If so, what is the Color Temp Control Set to? :devil:

[wl1]

I have attached some more of the screens/errors that are showing.

I can't get communicating with the screen - are there updates in firmware that miight prevent me getting in to the menus?

[Turbe]

Can you even Power On/Off the Display with the buttons on the Display Profile? If you can't, don't press any other buttons.

It looks like you have a communication problem, could be the wrong type of cable (or bad cable), serial port issues (or USB Serial Adapter/driver issue).

Have you verified that the serial cable is a straight-through cable? You have to use a multimeter and check that Pin 2 goes to Pin 2 and Pin 3 to Pin 3 (not Pin 2 to Pin3/Pin 3 to Pin 2). Many people claim to use the same cable as before only for the cable to be different (this is common).

Also, verify the COM Port speed in your TV itself (see the 8G Display Profile Thread to see how).

[wl1]

This was using the exact same cable that had previously worked (RS232 with straight through). I even tried a cable from work which had previously worked too. Admittedly, I had reloaded the software on the laptop, so maybe this is the problem. Or am I locked out with the new firmware?.

I went back and tried checking the Com settings. It took a while for my TV to respond to the remote (it wasn't me getting it wrong!) but it looked like it was set for 2400.

I reset back to 9600, and it may be sorted. I was able to get Power ON to respond, and a few other commands. It still seemed a bit prickly in certain areas, and a bit late now, so will take another look tomorrow. Thanks for the support, I hope you have cracked it.

Wayne

[Rod#S]

Just a follow up to my post above concerning how to set dot by dot. I played around with the settings again on the weekend and I see that the zoom settings remain accessable on the ISF modes via the remote so it must just be a memory thing on the tv with it going to the dot by dot setting. Initially when I select the input the screen goes to the 4:3 setting but once the signal is locked dot by dot is selected. This is true for my BluRay player and Xbox 360. My satellite goes to Full mode so all is good.

I'm having the tv re-calibrated tomorrow and I will ensure DRE, ACL and Black level are set to 0 and this time I'll set the Color Space to 2.

[wl1]

Yes - it was a Comm setting. It looks like I can communicate OK now, with both cables. I guess Pioneer Engineer had changed the setting for some reason.

I have a few questions - but will search the forums first. Thanks, again.

[Maksimka]

hello guys
Master Forum Turbe, ask a question asked in this topics. Such a problem, help settings to PDP-LX508D.
The problem described here
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5317&postcount=132

[Rod#S]

I was hoping someone can help with transferring data. I just got a new computer and I am currently transferring all of my files from my old computer to the new one and installing all of the applications I had on the old computer and that includes Control Cal. I just finished installing and activiating the application however I don't know how to move all of my calibration settings from the old computer to the new one. I had the set professionally calibrated and those settings must be stored somewhere on my old computer.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Turbe]

I'd run ControlCAL, enter the ISFccc Interface on your Display and have ControlCAL read/REFRESH (for both P1 and P2) the settings for each ISFccc memory calibrated?

[Rod#S]

I never even thought about that. It should do the trick just fine.

Thanks

[Blutarsky]

Last night I had a go with ControlCal 1.5 & Pioneer 8G profile 1.10.

While I can power on, start calibration, select input, select day/night mode, once i select "Refresh" I get all RED values.

I have tried to select color temp to manual (6) as you suggest, but the problem persists.

What can I try?

[Turbe]

It sounds like you have missed a step.. verify each step with the OSD (i.e. Input when changed, ISFccc Memory) before using Refresh.. also.. make sure the Input is setup for Video (not PC as many Controls are disabled).

To verify, you can Power On/Off the Display with the buttons in ControlCAL, correct?

[Blutarsky]

I can:
- power on
- start calibration
- select input
- select ISF day/night mode

But once "Refresh" is pressed I get ALMOST all RED values, except Brightness & Contrast

[Turbe]

But once "Refresh" is pressed I get ALMOST all RED values, except Brightness & Contrast

What is the source device?

For what Input (and type)? i.e. DVI, HDMI etc.

Then, how is the Input configured as: Signal Type Video or PC?

Your symptoms are exactly like the Input is setup as PC..

[Blutarsky]

I'm using my notebook connected with hdmi.

[Turbe]

Well, that's the issue then most likely... if you can't force the Pioneer to use the Video Signal Type on that Input (vs PC), many Controls will be disabled since Pioneer has them disabled for PC.

I checked a owner's manual for 428XDA/508XDA, page 55.. you should be able to configure is for Video.

[Blutarsky]

I recall a string showing VIDEO on the OSD

[Turbe]

It's also possible that you won't be able to force it to Video as long as it detects PC Levels from your laptop... I'm not sure about the 8G models when connected to a PC...

Anyways.. that is the problem.. the Display is in PC mode or thinks it is... need to resolve that (or connect a STB, BR Player, PS3 etc) or you will not be able to have all those Controls enabled (including those in the Home Menu and ISFccc)....