This thread is specifically for discussing ControlCAL's Pioneer 8G ISFccc (C3) Kuro / Elite Display Profile(s).
Current Profile Version: v1.1 (Requires ControlCAL v1.41 RC1 Build 20+).
Display Regions Supported: All Regions.
IMPORTANT:
BEFORE USING THESE PROFILES, PLEASE READ BOTH POST #2 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=957&postcount=2) AND POST #3 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=958&postcount=3) (below) for Instructions and Control Descriptions.
NOTE:
This is a Premium Display Profile and requires a Registered (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html), Professional (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html) or Professional Plus (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html) Activation Key.
-----> NEW CONTROLCAL USER? SEE: Step-by-Step: Activating the ISFccc Memories and Entering Posted Settings (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16).
v1.41 RC1:
Build 20 - 07/29/2008
+First Release Candidate - No New Features/Options will be added in v1.41.
+Full Activation System is now Enabled.
+Option in the Pioneer C3 Mode to customize 3 of 4 text lines saved to the ISFccc Interface (Professional Plus Activation Key required) - (new ControlCAL.ini (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=959&postcount=4) Option).
v1.41 Beta:
Build 19 - 06/20/2008
+Beta 3 Released - First Public Beta Version for 1.41.
+EDIT Mode now Enabled. Create, Save and Share your own ControlCAL Display Profiles.
+Fixed Spelling Error in C3 P1 Profile "Management".
+Changed ISF C3 Profiles File Names (deleted ISF).
+The Display Profiles are now a separate ZIP download from the ControlCAL application.
Build 18 - 05/23/2008
+Enabled Control Numeric Format #1 for REFRESH (Required for the new Mitsubishi HC3000 Display Profiles (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43)). See # Format (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2&postcount=2).
Build 17 - 05/20/2008
+Changed/fixed ISF C3 Inputs Tuner A - Tuner F.
Build 16 - 05/18/2008
+Removed check for "No Communications" during C3 INPUT Change/SET.
+Added Reset C3 Input Combobox after Calibration Mode successfully Closed (END CALIBRATION).
+Added additional time (based on Profile's Wait_For) to enable OSD when Calibration Mode is Closed (END CALIBRATION).
+Changed END CALIBRATION status text from "ISF MODE CLOSING" to "C3 MODE CLOSING".
+Changed/fixed Home [Media] Gallery Input Code.
+Fixed C3 Input Combobox not Resetting to blank on Invalid Input Set (when blank to begin with).
Build 15 - 05/14/2008
+Fixed Saving and Restoring Extras Window Position.
+Fixed Tuner and Home [Media] Gallery Input Selections.
+Fixed 9G support for North American Models (Region).
+Added 9G support for Japanese Models (Region).
+Fixed close COM port on exit (if open) - Left Disabled in Last Build.
+Auto enable OSD (On) when Ending C3 Calibration Mode (END CALIBRATION).
+Changed "ISF" Text to "Pioneer C3" in START/END CALIBRATION Success/No Success Dialogs.
+Additional Error Checking on C3 INPUT Control (when SET Button Pressed).
+Added Zoom Control to C3 Profile P2. See POST #3 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=958&postcount=3)
+Code rewritten in C3 START CALIBRATION and INPUT functions.
+Additional Undisclosed C3 Options.
+Additional Minor Bug fixes.
Build 14 - 04/28/2008
+Last two Profiles Loaded will be available in the File Menu for Quick Load.
+Added Option to Load a specific Profile on Startup (new ControlCAL.ini (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=959&postcount=4) option - [Profile] Startup_Load=).
+Added Confirmation Dialog for ISF RESET CURRENT Button.
+'Polling Display, Please Wait...' now displayed when Refreshing Gamma Only.
+Each Control's Label should no longer flash sporadically*.
+Several functions re-written*.
+Minor Bug fixed in Control #6 Slider Position (COLOR MANAGMENT G in ISF C3 P1).
+Changed Keys used in the Menus for some Commands/Options.
*ControlCAL Process' CPU USAGE reduced by 50% (as tested on three computers).
Build 12 - 04/20/2008
+Auto Send option - Control's Value is automatically sent when its Slider is moved without the need to Press the Control's SEND Button.
+Disable Error Dialogs option - Some Error Dialogs can now be disabled.
+ControlCAL.ini config file - Allows you to tune ControlCAL's performance. See Post #4 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=959&postcount=4) for more information.
+Additional Settings are saved on exit (Auto Send, Auto Add CR, Confirm Send, Error Dialogs and HEX Input).
-Removed Keyboard Key Toggles (F5, F7 and F8).
+Some Code optimized or re-written to save memory and improve performance.
Build 11 - 04/17/2008
+All Pioneer Display Regions now Supported (North America, Europe, Australia, China and General Regions).
+Changed the labels for the two Buttons to Enter/Exit Calibration (START CALIBRATION and END CALIBRATION).
NOTE: You may want to download and print the 9G ISFccc Documentation found HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1435&postcount=2) (attached to that Post in MS Word or Adobe PDF format). It applies to the 8G's as well but you want to use the Control Translation Table in POST #3 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=958&postcount=3) below.
Start ControlCAL
Configure COM Port Settings [MENU/SETTINGS/PORT SETTINGS]
Pioneer Displays Default to: 9600 Baud, 8 Data Bits, NO Parity and 1 Stop Bits, NO Flow Control.
Here are instructions from a Member of the Beta Test Group if you need to verify/change you Display's Serial Port Settings:
First make sure your TV is in Stand-By mode. .
Continuously hold down the "Home Menu" key and press the "Power" key within 3 seconds (release "Home Menu" after pressing "Power" key). After the Pioneer power's on you should see a menu with COM settings.
Use your "Left" and "Right" arrows to scroll through and locate 9600-232C or the wanted baud rate .
Once selected press the "Power" key to power off the set.
NOTE: Suggested Port Speed: 9600 baud (default).IMPORTANT: The Pioneer ISFccc Interface will timeout and return to Normal Operating Mode (auto END CALIBRATION) after 8 minutes of inactivity/not receiving any commands via the serial port. This is normal and part of the Display's safety mechanisms. WORK-AROUND/TIP - Change a Control Setting, simply Press the small SEND Button next to a Control to resend the current value and/or REFRESH every few minutes. The 8 minute setting cannot be changed in the Display or disabled.
PIONEER ISF C3 PROCEDURE FLOW/INSTRUCTIONS
UPDATED: 04/17/2008
Load Profile Part #1 (or Part #2).
From Display Standby...
_1) Press POWER ON Button.
_2) Press the START CALIBRATION Button - Received ISF Level Not Supported Dialog? See below.
_3) Select INPUT and Press SET.
_4) Press ISF DAY MODE (or ISF NIGHT MODE) Button.
_5) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
_6) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
[OPTIONAL - STEPS #7-#9]
_7) Load Part #2 Profile (or Part #1 if #2 is loaded).
_8) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
_9) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
10) Press SAVE.
11) Press ISF NIGHT MODE (or ISF DAY MODE) Button.
12) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
13) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
[OPTIONAL - STEPS #14-#16]
14) Load Part #1 Profile (or Part #2 if #1 is loaded).
15) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
16) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
17) Press SAVE.
Repeat Steps 3-17 above for any other INPUTS you want to calibrate.
18) Press the END CALIBRATION Button NOTE: IT CAN TAKE UP TO ONE MINUTE FOR THIS STEP TO COMPLETE!!!!!!!.
19) Press POWER OFF Button.
'RESET CURRENT' BUTTON INFORMATION
This will allow you to Reset the Settings for an INPUT'S Current Mode (DAY or NIGHT) to their Defaults and Reset the Calibration Flag to 0 (like the Mode was never Calibrated).
You can only use this Button once you have Entered Calibration Mode, Selected an Input and Selected DAY MODE or NIGHT MODE.
For example, you want to Reset all the settings for INPUT 1, both DAY and NIGHT MODES.
After Pressing the START CALIBRATION Button:
1) SELECT INPUT 1 and Press SET
2) Press the ISF DAY MODE Button, Press the RESET CURRENT Button.
3) Press the ISF NIGHT MODE Button, Press the RESET CURRENT Button.
Press the END CALIBRATION Button to exit Calibration. NOTE: IT CAN TAKE UP TO ONE MINUTE FOR THIS STEP TO COMPLETE!!!!!!!
Each Input has two Modes... if you wanted to Reset ALL, you would have to repeats STEPS 1 to 3 (of course selecting a different Input).
TIPS AND SUGGESTED OPTIONS
Enable Auto Send (disabled by default) and Disable (uncheck) Error Dialogs (found under Settings in the Menu). When using Auto Send, there should be no reason to use the SEND ALL Button. If an Pioneer Error Code is received, you will still see this in the Terminal Window.
Two other important bits of information are:1) concerning the Gamma Controls. each time you change a Gamma Point, you want to Press one of the two Small REFRESH Buttons near the Gamma Controls (Sliders). The Large REFRESH Button in the Main Window will Refresh all Controls including Gamma, the two Smaller REFRESH Buttons only Refresh Gamma.
2) when loading the other Profile (i.e. P2 from P1) and you have already entered Calibration Mode, you do not have to Press the START CALIBRATION Button again. ControlCAL does remember the Input you selected (no need to re-send that) and which Memory you are working on (ISF Day/ISF Night).
Most start with the P2 Profile, make those adjustments and spend the rest only working with P1 (you can refer to P1/P2 as Part #1, Part #2, Page #1, Page #2 or use any term you see fit).
Please see these two Posts (they apply to the 8G's):
ControlCAL.ini settings (speed up REFRESH, auto load one of the Pioneer Profiles on Startup, etc.):
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=959&postcount=4
I wouldn't change the AutoSend_Timing Setting, but the other two you would most likely find useful (many use a Value of 200 for Forced_Wait_For for the Pioneer Profiles).
If you get the "Display's ISF Level is not Compatible with this Profile" Dialog when you Press the CALIBRATION MODE Button, try again. Sometimes it is best to Select ControlCAL's Terminal Window and Press F12 (which sends a CR Only) after you first start ControlCAL, Load your first Profile and BEFORE you press any buttons, this can prep the Display for communications. If you continue to get this Dialog, verify that your Display is an 8th Generation Elite Model (North American) or Step up D (European). Other Regions will be added soon. A future Display Profile may be available for Non-Elites and their equivalents in other Regions.
This Warning Dialog does not indicate an Error with ControlCAL but does indicate that 1 of 2 Error Codes (as configured in the Display Profile) has been received from the Display. This could be due to communication errors, invalid values for the current mode etc.
i.e. Trying to send a value from the RGB-HIGHs (DRIVE) or RGB-LOWs (CUTOFF) Controls without first setting COLOR TEMP to 6 (Manual).
.
Turbe
04-07-2008, 01:29 PM
PIONEER 8G ISF C3 PROFILE CONTROL VALUE DESCRIPTIONS
PURE CINEMA
0 - Off
1 - Standard
2 - Advance
3 - Smooth
COLOR TEMP (This Control is also available in Part/Page #1 and #2)
0 -
1 - Low
2 - Mid-Low
3 - Mid
4 - Mid-High
5 - High
6 - Manual <--- REQUIRED FOR SETTING RGB-HIGH (DRIVE) AND RGB-LOW (CUTOFF) CONTROLS
COLOR SPACE
0 -
1 - 1
2 - 2
BLACK LEVEL
0 - Off
1 - On
ACL
0 - Off
1 - On
3DYC
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High
I-P MODE
0 -
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3
TEXT OPTIMISATION
0 - Off
1 - On
INTELLIGENT MODE
0 - Off
1 - On
DRE PICTURE
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High
ENHANCER MODE
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3
BLOCK NR
0 - Off
1 - On
3DNR
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High
FIELD NR
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High
MOSQUITO NR
0 - Off
1 - On
ZOOM
0 - Dot by Dot (FHD Only)
1 - 4:3
2 - Full
3 - Zoom
4 - Cinema
5 - Wide
6 - Full 14:9 (All Models except North America)
7 - Cinema 14:9 (All Models except North America)
INPUT / TUNER TABLES
8th Generation (8G):
PC - North America: Input 8 | Europe: Input 6 | China/General Regions: Input 7 | Australia: Input 7
Tuner A - North America: DTV/Analog Tuner A | Europe: Analog Tuner | China/General Regions: Analog Tuner | Australia: Analog Tuner
Tuner B - North America: DTV/Analog Tuner B | Europe: N/A | China/General Regions: N/A | Australia: N/A
Tuner C - North America: N/A | Europe: DTV | China/General Regions: N/A | Australia: DTV
.
Turbe
04-07-2008, 01:29 PM
ControlCAL.ini Setting Descriptions
Default Settings (Note: ControlCAL will default most values if the ControlCAL.ini file is missing or improper values are entered):
[PioneerC3]
Line1="calibrated 3/12/2008"
Line2="by your custom name"
Line3="your custom text"
Forced_Wait_For=[-1, 0-2000]
If this is Set between 0ms to 2000ms, ControlCAL will always use this value for the Wait_For Communication Setting instead of the one entered and saved with the Display Profile (helpful if the Display Profile is Locked). This is the time (in ms) between commands sent to the Display. Set to -1 to use the Wait_For value entered and saved with the Display Profile.
Startup_Load=Path/Display Profile
If you want to load a specific Display Profile each time ControlCAL is started, enter the Display Profile's Full Path and File Name within quotes.
AutoSend_Timing=[1-60]
How long the AutoSend Window is open/closed for sending commands when Auto Send is enabled (in ms). The Default [15] will allow commands to be sent approximately once per second. Use a smaller number to allow more steps to be sent per second, larger for less steps. Setting this to 60 would allow commands to be sent approximately once every two seconds.
[PioneerC3]
Line1=
Line2=
Line3=
Requires a Professional Plus Activation Key (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html). The Line1-3 Options allows you to customize the first 3 lines of the text string saved to a Pioneer Display during ISFccc Calibration. Each line can be a maximum of 24 characters. The 4th Line will be saved as " www.ControlCAL.com (http://www.ControlCAL.com) " (though you may Contact Us (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/sendmessage.php) for options to remove this branding). Enclose your text within Quotes and use Spaces to center each line as needed. Valid ASCII Character Codes: Decimal 32 to Decimal 126 (HEX: 20 to 7E) - i.e. abcd ABCD !"#$ {|}~.
More information concerning these Settings can be found HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1050&postcount=87).
Wolfy tested various Settings and reporting his results HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1066&postcount=103).
NOTE:
Make sure ControlCAL.ini is in the same directory as ControlCAL's .EXE.
If you make any changes while ControlCAL is running, you need to restart ControlCAL.
.
Wolfy
04-14-2008, 05:26 AM
Well, I finally got my hands on a straight serial DB9 cable on Saturday so I have now finally got to try out ControlCAL with my Pioneer PDP-428XD.
Overall a positive experience and I was definitely able to flatten my gamma tracking with the 9 point gamma adjustment, although the gamma controls in the Pioneer software are a bit too crude, i.e. only +/- 5, would have been nicer with more sensitive controls for finer adjustments.
I had no issues with ControlCAL's GUI except a few user errors on my part which is to be expected in learning a new software. An option to disable all warning dialogs would be nice and I think that is soon the case from what I've read.
A suggestion would be to change to look of Profile Window P2 to more mimic the layout in Pioneer's menu and the manual, i.e. something like this:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/controlcal/P2_L-mod.png
(Note: I changed places between 3DNR and Block NR)
I have indicated the groupings of different controls with the colored fields above.
This is not a huge deal, but would be nice IMHO.
Also, would it be possible to send the Set command as soon as you select an Input as opposed to the Set button?
That's a few words on my initial impressions. A work well done Shawn, cheers! Early days for me using ControlCAL so I'm sure I will write more as I continue to use this nice piece of software.
Is it something special you would like to have tested or do you want us to simply use the program and report back with any issues we might encounter?
gatornavy
04-14-2008, 02:47 PM
This may be a stupid question, but one thing I noticed when making my adjustments is that control cal leaves out Pioneer's gamma curve selection of 1-3. Is there any way to implement it, or is is totally unnecessary?
Turbe
04-14-2008, 02:50 PM
This may be a stupid question, but one thing I noticed when making my adjustments is that control cal leaves out Pioneer's gamma curve selection of 1-3. Is there any way to implement it, or is is totally unnecessary?
I think Blutarsky mentioned that too, but the 9-Point is what is available via the ISFccc interface, I believe those other selections are not needed.
Turbe
04-14-2008, 03:03 PM
Wolfy, thanks for those initial impressions.. :D
"Also, would it be possible to send the Set command as soon as you select an Input as opposed to the Set button?"
I could add this in when I enable the option to Auto Send each Control's Value (when changed)....
"I have indicated the groupings of different controls with the colored fields above."
Very easy to move Controls around with ControlCAL's design.... Perhaps others can chime in with their opinion concerning the groupings....
As far as adding Group Names, I'll have to think about this and how I would need to implement it.. Remember, ControlCAL is designed so Profiles can be created for many Displays by different Manufacturers. I did decide early on that I would put the Slider Controls in Groups of three (six Groups total per page) which would work well with the Displays I was familiar with and the ones I have the Serial Code Documentation for.
"A suggestion would be to change to look of Profile Window P2 to more mimic the layout in Pioneer's menu and the manual, i.e. something like this:"
I went from the Pioneer ISF C3 Documentation I have.... but as I stated above, it is very easy to move Controls to other positions if that is what you want.
"Is it something special you would like to have tested or do you want us to simply use the program and report back with any issues we might encounter?"
I'll let you know.. most likely, there will be some specific tests requests in the next builds.
-Shawn
Wolfy
04-14-2008, 04:14 PM
Wolfy, thanks for those initial impressions.. :DYou're very welcome :)
I could add this in when I enable the option to Auto Send each Control's Value (when changed)....Excellent, it's not a big deal though, easy enough to click on the Set button.
Very easy to move Controls around with ControlCAL's design.... Perhaps others can chime in with their opinion concerning the groupings....
As far as adding Group Names, I'll have to think about this and how I would need to implement it.. Remember, ControlCAL is designed so Profiles can be created for many Displays by different Manufacturers. I did decide early on that I would put the Slider Controls in Groups of three (six Groups total per page) which would work well with the Displays I was familiar with and the ones I have the Serial Code Documentation for.Yes, it would be interesting to hear what others think.
I did not mean to add group names, that's not necessary. The current way of grouping in groups of three is fine. The colors and names had no meaning other then to indicate the way that those specific controls are grouped together in Pioneer's 8G User Menu (under Pro Adjust), i.e. like the following:
PureCinema:
Film Mode
Text Optimisation
Intelligent Mode
Picture Detail:
DRE Picture
Black Level
ACL
Enhancer Mode
Gamma (9 point gamma in ISF C3)
Color Detail:
Color Temp (I understand why it's placed where it is in ControlCAL and that's fine)
CTI
Color Management (same as with Color Temp)
Color Space
Noise Reduction:
3DNR
Field NR
Block NR
Mosquito NR
Others:
3DYC
I-P Mode
I went from the Pioneer ISF C3 Documentation I have.... but as I stated above, it is very easy to move Controls to other positions if that is what you want.Yes, no big deal. It was only an idea because people used to Pioneer's User Menu will possibly feel more at home with an order like I suggested above. If you download an 8G user manual from Pioneer's website you will know what I mean :D
I'll let you know.. most likely, there will be some specific tests requests in the next builds.
-ShawnLooking forward to it!
Another suggestion ;)
Would it be possible to change the 9 point gamma drop down list to a (don't remember the English word) list where you click on buttons to change the value in the list, right/left buttons or up/down buttons? I hope you understand what I mean.
gary1027
04-14-2008, 05:02 PM
Any reason that you did not put the color management controls in order of R:G:B:Y:C:M ?
You have the high and low controls in order of RGB
gatornavy
04-14-2008, 05:18 PM
I'm very happy with the way everything is set up. It took me a little bit to get used to having to set and save and set normal, but other than that I don't know that much improvement is necessary. I'm still not sure about not being able to select the gamma curves. I understand that there is a 9 point adjustment, but all that does is help flatten out the grayscale. Maybe the gamma cure is perfect through the ISFccc. I haven't done an actual grayscale run yet to see where my gamma sits with my control cal adjustments, but I'll give that a shot soon. I'll keep playing with the program and reporting in. Thanks Shawn for taking the initiative to do this, and for letting all of us help out.
Turbe
04-14-2008, 05:31 PM
Any reason that you did not put the color management controls in order of R:G:B:Y:C:M ?
You have the high and low controls in order of RGB
I didn't even think about this, I just entered them in the order the ISF C3 Documentation had... :(
Let me know exactly how you would like them (positions for all the Controls).. hopefully others will share their opinions as well... I can change the positions very quickly.
:D
I'm very happy with the way everything is set up. It took me a little bit to get used to having to set and save and set normal, but other than that I don't know that much improvement is necessary. I'm still not sure about not being able to select the gamma curves. I understand that there is a 9 point adjustment, but all that does is help flatten out the grayscale. Maybe the gamma cure is perfect through the ISFccc. I haven't done an actual grayscale run yet to see where my gamma sits with my control cal adjustments, but I'll give that a shot soon. I'll keep playing with the program and reporting in. Thanks Shawn for taking the initiative to do this, and for letting all of us help out.
Thanks for your initial impression.. :) Once you take the time with gamma, post your thoughts/results here.
-Shawn
Wolfy
04-14-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm very happy with the way everything is set up. It took me a little bit to get used to having to set and save and set normal, but other than that I don't know that much improvement is necessary. I'm still not sure about not being able to select the gamma curves. I understand that there is a 9 point adjustment, but all that does is help flatten out the grayscale. Maybe the gamma cure is perfect through the ISFccc. I haven't done an actual grayscale run yet to see where my gamma sits with my control cal adjustments, but I'll give that a shot soon. I'll keep playing with the program and reporting in. Thanks Shawn for taking the initiative to do this, and for letting all of us help out.My understanding is that the 9 point adjustment is for flattening out the gamma curve(s) or in other words make the luminance adhere to a target logarithmic curve. This will also interact with grayscale tracking so you need to keep your eyes on both, but the 9 point adjustment are for adjusting the gamma. At least, that's how I understand it.
You only have a 2 point grayscale adjustment, RGB Highs (Gains) and RGB Lows (Cuts). I use a 80% pattern for Gains and a 30% pattern for Cuts.
I use the following workflow:
Set black level and then white level using brightness and contrast.
Set gamut (primary colors) using Color Management.
Set gamma, i.e. a flat gamma tracking using 9 point gamma adjustment.
Set grayscale using RGB Highs and Lows.
Check and Set secondary colors if necessary using Color Management.
Check gamut again, adjust if necessary.
Set color decoder using Color and Tint (NTSC).
Start from 3 again, when OK advance to 9.
Check everything from 1, if OK, calibration is done.
Edit: Forgot adding adjustment of the color decoder
razz1
04-15-2008, 02:22 AM
My initial impressions were very positive. I enjoyed all the options. The error boxes are a bit annoying. One wrong button at the wrong time sends a swarm of error boxes. A better description of the controls would also be an improvement, such as Pure Cinema Advance, Standard or Smooth. Instead of 1,2 or 3.
Pressing "RESET CURRENT" will also reset the current AV SETTING that you are in, such as MOVIE or PURE. I just happened to wipe out a good calibration on movie when I Pressed that button. (O WELL, LOL).
I was unable to test the Gamma controls, but I will get to them soon.
Turbe
04-15-2008, 09:01 AM
My initial impressions were very positive. I enjoyed all the options. The error boxes are a bit annoying. One wrong button at the wrong time sends a swarm of error boxes. A better description of the controls would also be an improvement, such as Pure Cinema Advance, Standard or Smooth. Instead of 1,2 or 3.
Pressing "RESET CURRENT" will also reset the current AV SETTING that you are in, such as MOVIE or PURE. I just happened to wipe out a good calibration on movie when I Pressed that button. (O WELL, LOL).
I was unable to test the Gamma controls, but I will get to them soon.
Pioneer does have an command available to RESET ALL but I decided not to have that as an option. Blutarsky suggested I add a confirmation and I think that is a good idea.
BTW, do you remember what you did to see/receive all those Error Dialogs (and were they Errors or Warnings)?
In regards to the error boxes, I will be adding an option to disable those. There are Warnings and the check to see if 1 of 2 Error Codes was sent from the Display. I need to decided if I should disable both with one option or have an option for both, so each can be disabled/enabled individually. What do you think?
As far as the Control's Description (i.e. Standard, Smooth vs 1, 2, 3), the Trackbar/Slider type Control gives me flexibility in supporting many Displays from different Manufacturers. But everyone's feedback is important.
I see two options here:
1) Create an additional Control Type (Combobox) and allow each Position to contain either a Trackbar/Slider or Combobox Control (with descriptive names as you suggest).
2) Create a separate application for the ISFccc interface and customize the GUI to work best with the Pioneers. Of course, this option would not be part of my original goal for this application - a Universal Type Control Application with Loadable Display Profiles.
In any case, either option would not happen for at least a few versions from now.
Thanks again for the feedback... :D
-Shawn
gatornavy
04-15-2008, 10:04 AM
Can someone give me a tip for setting gamma correctly. Some of the gamma points don't line up perfectly with each of my IRE's and changing some of the points throws others out of whack. I'm about to throw my 950 out the window. Grrrrr. Is this Control Cals fault, or am I correct in thinking it's my display?
Turbe
04-15-2008, 10:10 AM
Can someone give me a tip for setting gamma correctly. Some of the gamma points don't line up perfectly with each of my IRE's and changing some of the points throws others out of whack. I'm about to throw my 950 out the window. Grrrrr. Is this Control Cals fault, or am I correct in thinking it's my display?
Blutarsky posted his concern(s) about this on AVS... I'll find it and post it here.
Perhaps he will comment as well.
gatornavy
04-15-2008, 12:37 PM
I noticed that Control Cal seems to shut calibration mode down by itself if it's idle for too long. This can be a pain while running some tests. Can you extend this time or disable it all together?
Turbe
04-15-2008, 12:42 PM
I noticed that Control Cal seems to shut calibration mode down by itself if it's idle for too long. This can be a pain while running some tests. Can you extend this time or disable it all together?
It's 8 minutes and this is safety mechanism built into Pioneer's Displays. If I remember right, it cannot be changed.
It was suggested that I add some type of timer to ControlCAL to keep track of this and I may add this feature.
Instead of a timer, I may have it auto save your Control's Values/Positions every few minutes (once I an add option to save them in the first place).
Workaround?
You could simply Press SEND for one of the Controls without changing the Slider (or the Control's value) every few minutes, I believe that would reset the Display's internal timer.
-Shawn
Turbe
04-15-2008, 12:43 PM
Concerning Gamma from the post above:
Blutarsky's post on AVS:
I've followed Huffmans guide: set some initial brightness and contrast , adjust gamma curve (inside ISF C3 interface it looks like there is no Gamma1,2,3 setting); once in place, set red Y to 21% of 100 IRE white.
Then moved on into the grayscale and CIE chart/colorpoints adjustment cycle.
Once done, I've finally entered the 9 point gamma tracking values.
There has been a lot of discussions between professional calibrators about using this interface and it looks like it is contradictory and confusing. I've used it only once, so I may be wrong, but It looks like there's plenty of room for improvements.
First of all it has a "ten points" scale from -5 to +5 acting as a fine tuning tool, BUT:
- On the low IRE side of the scale, just one "click" plus/minus makes curves in the grayscale "jump" very quickly with big loss/gains in the 10% order on the graph, say one click increase, moves the curve from 95% to 105%....
- On the high side of the scale, the contrary: you need many "clicks" to "move" the curve.
- One other strange beheaviour is that if you tweak a point, you are actually changing the next one! You have to keep in mind this factor.
Also, as pointed out allready, the behaviour of the 9 point gamma should radically change: it would be much better to have a wider control range, with a larger number of steps, to allow users to make very fine adjustments but at the same time giving the opportunity to boost values if needed.
Wolfy
04-15-2008, 01:21 PM
Concerning Gamma from the post above:
Blutarsky's post on AVS:
...- One other strange beheaviour is that if you tweak a point, you are actually changing the next one! You have to keep in mind this factor.
I can't say that I have experienced this. Here's a couple of screenshots and photos from a mini review I wrote for a Swedish home theater forum:
It seems to be effecting where it should be. I have tried this with all the points of the 9 point gamma adjustment and it seems to be correct all through the range.
Of course, when you start trying to influence the gamma tracking over the whole range it's a whole other beast :D
Also, I don't know if I have missed something, but you only have a 2 point grayscale adjustment, RGB Gains and Cutoffs. As far as I understand it, all you can do is try to get as flat a gamma tracking as you can while having a grayscale tracking where RGB, while being separated, is also flat so that you can adjust that with RGB Gains and Cutoffs.
Comments?
Turbe
04-15-2008, 01:36 PM
Do you have a link to the Swedish site where you did the review? :D
Wolfy
04-15-2008, 04:46 PM
Sure: ControlCAL thread on Component.se (http://www.component.se/forum/index.php?showtopic=8801). It's in Swedish though and the images are a mix between direct image links and some uploaded to the site so that they will be reduced in size to match the width of the site layout. I think you will need to be a member to be able to see those, but then again those ones are screen captures from ControlCAL so I think you already know what they look like ;)
Blutarsky
04-16-2008, 05:57 AM
Great posts Wolfy, as always!
Well since I've been getting decent and constant results with the Getgray calibration patterns DVD I could concentrate on calibration and the C3 Interface.
I'm getting there and as I've wrote on AVS I need a few runs to acheive a very good calibration.
About the 9 point gamma tracking: I'm using it to flatten the grayscale and, yes, it changes slightly the gamma curve...Unsure if this is what it was intended for...
But now I can tweak correctly the grasycale, although it's very dangerous in terms of impact, as a single click can screw up everything.
For this reason now I'm recording on paper each change I do so I can easily goback at the previous setting and start over with other changes.
Definitelly it's not a Controlcal matter, it is the interface tha is tricky, that is why I asked some Pioneer's representative to make some changes in the firmware, if possible.
But basically I've learned that, initially, we should perform multiple runs without touching the "G9" control until we have reached very pleasant results. Try to adjust the grayscale just using RGB highs and lows to get it flat say from IRE 30 to 80. Adjust "Colour management" to move the colorpoints in place; it will make the grayscale task tougher but it will bring you to better results.
Once you get there, you can start to flatten the grayscale on the left and right sides, with the G9 control, just changeing one click per time and performing again the grayscale measurement to see what happened.
The only concern is this is the correct way to use the G9 control!
Maybe shawn could ask @ Pioneer.....
About firmware changes: I'll defintelly go for a petition online, hopeing Pioneer's bosses will decide to go for a more future-proof strategy and customer care satisfaction with firmware updates.
Blutarsky
04-16-2008, 06:00 AM
One thing I've forgot to mention: I suspect the C3 interface being buggy (one more reason to update firmware.... Josh? :) ) :
Within the infamous 8 minutes timeout, it happened to me at least 2 times, that the display changed it's output values, acting like if it was being resetted. All this, before the 8 minutes timeout!
Wolfy did you experience the same problem?
Wolfy
04-16-2008, 06:03 AM
Regarding you using the 9 point gamma to adjust grayscale tracking, that seems backwards to me since in the ISF interface you replace the 3 set gamma choices in the User Menu with a 9 point adjustment. The aim with it is still to get as flat a gamma tracking as you can. The grayscale is adjusted with RGB Highs and Lows. At least that's my understanding of how it should work.
The way I have been adjusting is to not touch Green for grayscale adjustment, only Red and Blue (adjusting this after gamma).
For 9 point gamma I start trying to flatten Green since that gives the most contribution to Luminance and then I follow up with Red and last Blue and finally trying to fine tune everything while also looking at how the grayscale looks. I've come a part of the way but still not cracked the riddle so as to feel confident about how everything interacts. If I do I will report my steps.
I hope that if there's anyone reading this who knows the proper way to do this, they will chime in :)
Wolfy
04-16-2008, 06:25 AM
Great posts Wolfy, as always!You're not too shabby yourself mate :)
...About the 9 point gamma tracking: I'm using it to flatten the grayscale and, yes, it changes slightly the gamma curve...Unsure if this is what it was intended for...Hmm, I can get pretty large impact on gamma tracking using the 9 point. Here's an example (dotted lines indicate the starting point after having set black level, white level and gamut):
R0, G1, B0
R-2, G-1, B-2
R-2, G-1, B-2
R-2, G-1, B-2
R-2, G-1, B-2
R-2, G-1, B-2
R-2, G-1, B-2
R0, G0, B0
R0, G0, B0
But now I can tweak correctly the grasycale, although it's very dangerous in terms of impact, as a single click can screw up everything.If it works for you, then go for it. I certainly don't have all the answers, I just find it logical that the 9 point adjustments should adjust the gamma in lieu of the 3 set values you have in the User Menu.
I agree that the adjustments are not sensitive enough, they are too harsh and makes too much impact thus making it tricky and hard to control.
For this reason now I'm recording on paper each change I do so I can easily goback at the previous setting and start over with other changes.That's very good practice. I'm also going to start recording everything to see if one can find out the proper way to do this.
The only concern is this is the correct way to use the G9 control!Yup, and that's my concern too. I find it logical that G9 should be used for gamma, but I don't know if my way is the proper way. I hope someone in the know will share their knowledge with us.
Meanwhile, good luck to you in your efforts to find a way that works well all of the time... and good luck to me and everyone else too :D
Wolfy
04-16-2008, 06:30 AM
...Within the infamous 8 minutes timeout, it happened to me at least 2 times, that the display changed it's output values, acting like if it was being resetted. All this, before the 8 minutes timeout!
Wolfy did you experience the same problem?I have only had it happen when I was changing my DVD from DVE to GetGray. As soon as the TV momentarily lost the signal from the DVD all settings were reset. If I use SAVE SETTINGS in ControlCAL there's no worries though, yet...
Blutarsky
04-16-2008, 07:00 AM
Yes, I see it now.Not sure that you need more than to change the gamma adjustments though. I mean that something like this should be sufficient?
Regarding you using the 9 point gamma to adjust grayscale tracking, that seems backwards to me since in the ISF interface you replace the 3 set gamma choices in the User Menu with a 9 point adjustment.
Yes, I've had the same suspect.. probabily the 3 presets in the TV are some 9 point "hardocoded" combinations.
Nevertheless that control is the only way to flatten spiky points on the grayscale, particularly on the extreme sides of the grayscale...
As this changes the gamma curve, I've asked Tom Huffman to tell what is it better to sacrifice.... grayscale or gamma? Or? Look for a compromise?.
Personally I would say that a compromise is what you have to aim for. A S-shaped gamma curve is as objectionable as a spiky and "colored" grayscale for the PQ.
Here are gamma unzoomed from above and also the grayscale at this point in the calibration. Note that this is not a finished calibration, I haven't got there yet, but you can at least see some semblance of a grayscale that should be possible to adjust correctly with RGB Highs and Lows:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/controlcal/9point-adjustment-no-zoom.png
This is for darkened room viewing, i.e. only with a dim bias light behind the TV.
PS Having thought about it for a while longer, I would say that gamma is most important since a bad gamma tracking will mean that you lose the dynamic range in the image, possibly details and worst case end up with a washed out image that lacks details both in shadows and highlights. This is IMHO.
Blutarsky
04-16-2008, 08:00 AM
Do you think my S-curved gamma is acceptable?
gatornavy
04-16-2008, 10:49 AM
I was able to flatten out my grayscale perfectly last night using the RGB highs and lows and then tweaking with the 9 point gamma adjustment. It took a lot of passes and trial and error, but I nailed it. Oh then I tried to tweak one point for absolute perfection, and screwed it all up. Grrr. Frustrating, but fun!
Blutarsky, your s-curved gamma is better than a lot I've seen and is pretty good, though with using control cal last night, I was able to get it even flatter before I screwed it up. Keep trying.
I've noticed my PURE user setting being reset after using control cal as well. Not sure exactly what caused it.
http://i25.tinypic.com/2vxlwls.jpg
Turbe
04-16-2008, 11:53 AM
What Color Space Setting is everyone using? In the ISF Mode(s), you should be set to 2.
Make sure you have both of these (in ISF Calibration Mode of course):
Color Temp: 6
Color Space: 2
9 point gamma was design for the color correction side of it, not gamma tweaks though it can be used for gamma tweaks. Use a 10 Step ramp pattern with these Controls.
I'll post some tips (including recommended Flow later). :D
-Shawn
Turbe
04-16-2008, 12:04 PM
The Build I am working on now (Build 11) will become Build 12 or 13.
For some recent requests and needs, I will be quickly releasing Build 11 that only adds the remaining Regions: Australia and China/General Regions.
-Shawn
Wolfy
04-16-2008, 12:13 PM
Cheers Shawn,
I always use Color Space 2 and Color Temp 6.
Not sure what you mean by color correction side of things but I look forward to your upcoming flow post ;)
Wolfy
04-16-2008, 12:19 PM
Do you think my S-curved gamma is acceptable?First of all I think you're the best judge of that. From my limited experience it's certainly not horrible, but I think you should be able to a bit flatter.
Blutarsky
04-16-2008, 12:41 PM
gator what sensor and patterns are you using?
gatornavy
04-16-2008, 12:56 PM
I'm using a spyder2 with HCFR with the AVS HD 709 test patterns through my Sony BDP-S300.
gatornavy
04-16-2008, 12:59 PM
Cheers Shawn,
I always use Color Space 2 and Color Temp 6.
Not sure what you mean by color correction side of things but I look forward to your upcoming flow post ;)
Same here, can't wait to read your flow post.
Turbe
04-16-2008, 06:11 PM
Build 11 has been released.
You should have received my email with the link.
Though Build 11 only adds support for Models in all Regions, it is very important that everyone is using Build 11. Since I rewrote the function handling the Regions, I do need verification that this Build is working with the North American and European Models still.
Please even post if it works and post your Display's Region...
Thanks :D
-Shawn
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 03:30 AM
I'm using a spyder2 with HCFR with the AVS HD 709 test patterns through my Sony BDP-S300.
So REC709 in HCFR...
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 03:31 AM
Build 11 has been released.
You should have received my email with the link.
Though Build 11 only adds support for Models in all Regions, it is very important that everyone is using Build 11. Since I rewrote the function handling the Regions, I do need verification that this Build is working with the North American and European Models still.
Please even post if it works and post your Display's Region...
Thanks :D
-Shawn
When releasing an update, could it be possible to have the fix list?
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 03:36 AM
What Color Space Setting is everyone using? In the ISF Mode(s), you should be set to 2.
You can either go for 1 or 2, I personally prefer 2, 'cause it gets the primaries and secondaries x,y closer to reference.
At least in REC601.
Some calibrators prefer 1
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 04:23 AM
You can either go for 1 or 2, I personally prefer 2, 'cause it gets the primaries and secondaries x,y closer to reference.
At least in REC601...Been meaning to ask you about that. Are you using HCFR's Rec 601 NTSC setting for CIE and then moving your measured primaries from a PAL calibration DVD to try and match that?
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 04:35 AM
Been meaning to ask you about that. Are you using HCFR's Rec 601 NTSC setting for CIE and then moving your measured primaries from a PAL calibration DVD to try and match that?
Yes.
There has been a long debate abot this wrong description in HCFR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13034180#post13034180) (who knows why is still there?) but it is correct to use SD-REC601 for DVDs and Satellite.
There's also has been a lot of speculation about ought-to-be-REC709-HD contents, that is more pepole is stating that currently also HD contents (TV and discs) are mastered with old fashioned equipment (monitors) still being used with REC601!!
That's why I've started with REC601, although being a tougher task. I'm suspecting REC709 being much easier on those 8Gs........
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 05:54 AM
Yes.
There has been a long debate abot this wrong description in HCFR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13034180#post13034180) (who knows why is still there?) but it is correct to use SD-REC601 for DVDs and Satellite.
There's also has been a lot of speculation about ought-to-be-REC709-HD contents, that is more pepole is stating that currently also HD contents (TV and discs) are mastered with old fashioned equipment (monitors) still being used with REC601!!
That's why I've started with REC601, although being a tougher task. I'm suspecting REC709 being much easier on those 8Gs........From discussions with someone a lot more knowledgeable than me I believe this to be wrong and here's why:
NTSC DVD is encoded ITU R BT601 and uses SMPTE C primaries (coordinates in CIE):
R (x, y), [% of Y]: (0.630, 0.340), [21.2%]
G (x, y), [% of Y]: (0.310, 0.595), [70.1%]
B (x, y), [% of Y]: (0.155, 0.070), [8.7%]
PAL DVD is encoded ITU R BT601 and uses EBU Tech 3213 primaries:
R (x, y), [% of Y]: (0.640, 0.330), [22.2%]
G (x, y), [% of Y]: (0.290, 0.600), [70.7%]
B (x, y), [% of Y]: (0.150, 0.060), [7.1%]
I believe that ITU R BT601 defines nothing about primary colors, but are only definitions of the matrix encoding of video data from RGB color space to YCbCr color space etc. IMHO HCFR would do better in naming the choices in the menu to SMPTE C (NTSC) and EBU (PAL) for DVD sources.
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 05:57 AM
What can I say..... it's one of the authors of HCFR that told me to use that choice :confused:
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 06:05 AM
I know, I followed some of the discussions, but I was too busy with other things to involve myself.
If you think about it though, doesn't it seem strange to place PAL content on NTSC primary color coordinates? I wonder if HCFR has confused the matrix encoding with color coordinates...?
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 06:08 AM
I know, I followed some of the discussions, but I was too busy with other things to involve myself.
If you think about it though, doesn't it seem strange to place PAL content on NTSC primary color coordinates? I wonder if HCFR has confused the matrix encoding with color coordinates...?
Well.... they could get killed by everyone spending thousands hours calibrating with a bad reference....
You could post in the ColorHCFR 2 thread the same question.... the whole community would benefit!
I remember I've started with EBU/PAL and then I was told by laric not to use it!!! :confused::confused:
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 07:18 AM
Shawn, could you ask at Pioneer how the G9 interface is meant to be used and when, in the calibration loop?
BTW, Tom Huffman states he wouldn't hesitate to go for a perfect grayscale...unless the gamma curve is a disaster!
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 07:47 AM
Well.... they could get killed by everyone spending thousands hours calibrating with a bad reference....
You could post in the ColorHCFR 2 thread the same question.... the whole community would benefit!
I remember I've started with EBU/PAL and then I was told by laric not to use it!!! :confused::confused:Hehe, don't feel like getting into a big argument over that, but I may write something eventually.
I go by the professional reviews of Pioneer Elites and Pioneer xxxx8XDs which all pretty much confirm that the 8G Pio is pretty close to standard using CS 2 and the fact that when you select Color Space SDTV REC 601 (NTSC) in HCFR you get SMPTE C (NTSC) coordinates and when you select PAL/SECAM you get EBU (PAL) coordinates and since all you do is measure the color coordinates, i.e. you don't measure anything related to ITU R BT601 when using HCFR, in the CIE diagram... Well, how can you use NTSC coordinates for PAL content?
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 07:54 AM
Shawn, could you ask at Pioneer how the G9 interface is meant to be used and when, in the calibration loop?
BTW, Tom Huffman states he wouldn't hesitate to go for a perfect grayscale...unless the gamma curve is a disaster!Yes, I have again discussed this with someone a h_ll of a lot more knowledgeable than me and I think both you and Tom are correct, i.e. grayscale is the dogs b_llocks ;)
He wrote: If the grayscale is uneven, the gamma curve will be uneven. If the grayscale is even (flat) but the gamma is uneven you have an issue with your display or your source.Of course, I think that this could also be an issue with the ISF software in Pioneer G8 and if so perhaps possible to address with a firmware update.
Still looking forward to Shawn's post, perhaps it will put this G9 confusion to rest.
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 08:26 AM
Hehe, don't feel like getting into a big argument over that, but I may write something eventually.
...
I had a go with HCFR's french forum and it looks like laric (Patrice) is writing the same story: "Don't use EBU/Pal when calibrating your DVD."
Can we trust HCFR? :confused: Or shall we need another calibration tool? I will copy your message and post it into the HCFR2 thread....
Turbe
04-17-2008, 08:50 AM
I guess you have to trust me :D
You must set Color Space=2 when using the ISF Interface.
I will have a "Official" (ControlCAL :D) Flow for the Pioneer's ISFccc Interface posted in the future.
Turbe
04-17-2008, 08:55 AM
I still have no verification if the new Region Function is working properly... :(
Wolfy, I never heard back from you last night (2am my time).. did you try Build 11 yet?
When releasing an update, could it be possible to have the fix list?
I usually post that but forgot.
I will update Post #1 (or #4) about Build 11, iti will be short.
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 09:02 AM
I still have no verification if the new Region Function is working properly... :(
Wolfy, I never heard back from you last night (2am my time).. did you try Build 11 yet?
I will tonite, ok?
damn, wrong button.. didn't mean to edit your post... :(
Turbe
04-17-2008, 09:12 AM
I will tonite, ok?
:)... now I can't remember right now, but I think Wolfy and you are the only ones using Models assigned to the European Region... I was on late last night and saw Wolfy on, he sent a PM that he would be testing now, so I thought I would have seen a post by the morning (my time)..
I figured you would have it checked by tonight (my time) :D
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 09:22 AM
Hhehhee yes! It looks like You've slowed down the edevelopment... or?
Turbe
04-17-2008, 09:35 AM
Hhehhee yes! It looks like You've slowed down the edevelopment... or?
I'm getting old...???!!! :confused:
I did have to take time out to setup this site...
I was hoping to get feedback from a few more Users before releasing another version.... I am missing feedback from at least 10 others (most have not even Registered on the Forum yet). :(
I'll have the next Build out soon.. :D
gatornavy
04-17-2008, 11:41 AM
So REC709 in HCFR...
Yes, REC709 in HCFR.
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 11:56 AM
I still have no verification if the new Region Function is working properly... :(
Wolfy, I never heard back from you last night (2am my time).. did you try Build 11 yet?Yes, I have, but I wanted to be a bit more thorough since I got a strange result. I didn't notice it again though so it may just have been a weird fluke.
Anyway, I had created ISF-Day and ISF-Night with build 10 and then I used build 11 to reset them/reset the ISF flag which worked just fine.
I shut the TV off, closed ControlCAL down and started over. When I in profile P2 clicked REFRESH after having clicked ISF-Day I got some strange results:
Sharpness was -13 (has always been 0 starting from new IIRC)
Color was -6 (0 IIRC)
All G9 RGB was -5 which I have never even set (has always been 0)
Where does ControlCAL get its data from when no ISF-day, -night has been created?
I think it has been mentioned before, but I tried to click RESET CURRENT after having selected ISF-day and -night when I had a mode other than the ISF modes selected as A/V Mode in the User Menu and then both the ISF modes as well as the other mode was reset. Is this simply how the interface works?
Anyway, I wasn't able to recreate the strange results from above and I have been able to power up, select calibrate, select ISF mode, send settings, save settings, create ISF modes and reset ISF modes with build 11 so it seems to be working fine over here.
Pioneer PDP-428XD (European, Swedish).
Noticed the renamed buttons in build 11: START CALIBRATION and END CALIBRATION. That's a nice change, cheers.
Another question. When clicking on SAVE SETTINGS the ISF menu reports back Calibration Completed. Is this something you have access to? If so, IMHO Save Completed would be a better message ;)
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 12:01 PM
:)...I was on late last night and saw Wolfy on, he sent a PM that he would be testing now, so I thought I would have seen a post by the morning (my time)..Hehe, got a visit from my father so I was busy with other things for a while ;)
Too bad about the poor feedback return :(
gatornavy
04-17-2008, 12:22 PM
I went through quick this afternoon to verify the new build was working. Everything seems to be working fine here. I noticed my errors didn't turn red, but I still got 50 annoying error messages in a row because I forgot to set night/day mode.
Turbe
04-17-2008, 12:44 PM
Yes, I have, but I wanted to be a bit more thorough since I got a strange result. I didn't notice it again though so it may just have been a weird fluke.
Anyway, I had created ISF-Day and ISF-Night with build 10 and then I used build 11 to reset them/reset the ISF flag which worked just fine.
I shut the TV off, closed ControlCAL down and started over. When I in profile P2 clicked REFRESH after having clicked ISF-Day I got some strange results:
Sharpness was -13 (has always been 0 starting from new IIRC)
Color was -6 (0 IIRC)
All G9 RGB was -5 which I have never even set (has always been 0)
That is strange. I didn't change any code for that.
Where does ControlCAL get its data from when no ISF-day, -night has been created?
Two tables still exist for each Input (one table for Day, another for Night), so when the Mode is Reset, that Mode's Table's Values are set to Defaults.
I think it has been mentioned before, but I tried to click RESET CURRENT after having selected ISF-day and -night when I had a mode other than the ISF modes selected as A/V Mode in the User Menu and then both the ISF modes as well as the other mode was reset. Is this simply how the interface works?
According to the Documentation, it only RESETS the Current Table (for the currently Selected INPUT and its MODE, either ISF Day or ISF Night). The RESET Command I am using will only function if the Display is in one of those two modes (ISF Day or ISF Night).
Anyway, I wasn't able to recreate the strange results from above and I have been able to power up, select calibrate, select ISF mode, send settings, save settings, create ISF modes and reset ISF modes with build 11 so it seems to be working fine over here.
Thanks Wolfy... :)
Pioneer PDP-428XD (European, Swedish).
Noticed the renamed buttons in build 11: START CALIBRATION and END CALIBRATION. That's a nice change, cheers.
:D
Another question. When clicking on SAVE SETTINGS the ISF menu reports back Calibration Completed. Is this something you have access to? If so, IMHO Save Completed would be a better message ;)
Do you mean the OSD Displays 'Calibration Completed'? If so, I can't change that Label since that is in the Firmware. What does it the OSD Display when you Press END CALIBRATION (after several seconds)?
Turbe
04-17-2008, 12:50 PM
I went through quick this afternoon to verify the new build was working. Everything seems to be working fine here. I noticed my errors didn't turn red, but I still got 50 annoying error messages in a row because I forgot to set night/day mode.
That will teach you not to follow the proper Procedure Flow.. LOL :D
I will be adding an option so you can Disable those Dialogs.
Thanks for checking....
-Shawn
Turbe
04-17-2008, 12:54 PM
Question:
When you Press the REFRESH ALL Button (once in CALIBRATION MODE), for Y-DELAY, do you receive a "Error Code received from Display" Dialog only once, the Y-DELAY Control Label turns Red and the last Warning Dialog about the Control(s) in RED?
This is assuming you have COLOR TEMP set to 6.
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 01:29 PM
I've tested beta 11.... but didn't understand how the software should detect the model/region...
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 01:34 PM
That is strange. I didn't change any code for that.Yes, strange. Only seen it once though so it was probably just a coincidence.
According to the Documentation, it only RESETS the Current Table (for the currently Selected INPUT and its MODE, either ISF Day or ISF Night). The RESET Command I am using will only function if the Display is in one of those two modes (ISF Day or ISF Night).Yes, you have to select ISF Day or Night in ControlCAL before being able to reset the respective mode, but should you have another A/V Mode selected prior to starting ControlCAL then that will be reset too.
I don't know if there's anything you can do about that. Usually one would have one of the ISF modes selected when working with those, but it can be a hassle if you have one of the preset modes calibrated for use with the same input, e.g. calibrated ISF Day/Night for PAL DVD and A/V Mode Movie or User for NTSC and then forget to select ISF Day/Night before starting ControlCAL.
If it's not possible to change it could be worth mentioning in the documentation.
Do you mean the OSD Displays 'Calibration Completed'? If so, I can't change that Label since that is in the Firmware. What does it the OSD Display when you Press END CALIBRATION (after several seconds)?OK, no big deal. Yes, the OSD shows that message.
When I press END CALIBRATION the ISF OSD flashes as it reads to the memory and the ControlCAL labels are flashing too. After a while ControlCAL shows the dialog "ISF Mode disabled" shows and once the TV is done the ISF OSD shuts off (as if you pressed OSD Off in ControlCAL). Then I press POWER OFF.
Wolfy
04-17-2008, 01:40 PM
Question:
When you Press the REFRESH ALL Button (once in CALIBRATION MODE), for Y-DELAY, do you receive a "Error Code received from Display" Dialog only once, the Y-DELAY Control Label turns Red and the last Warning Dialog about the Control(s) in RED?
This is assuming you have COLOR TEMP set to 6.That is precisely what I see anyway and in that order.
Subsequent presses only yields the first warning that you have to click OK before the polling continues. Same thing with SEND ALL, i.e. you get the first warning only (if you have pressed REFRESH once, if not you probably get all three things happen).
Turbe
04-17-2008, 01:42 PM
When I press END CALIBRATION the ISF OSD flashes as it reads to the memory and the ControlCAL labels are flashing too. After a while ControlCAL shows the dialog "ISF Mode disabled" shows and once the TV is done the ISF OSD shuts off (as if you pressed OSD Off in ControlCAL). Then I press POWER OFF.
I agree, the OSD description for SAVE is odd.
I've tested beta 11.... but didn't understand how the software should detect the model/region...
Thanks for checking... :D
Each Display will report its Region......
Blutarsky
04-17-2008, 11:02 PM
Each Display will report its Region......
Yeah but... where?
Turbe
04-18-2008, 10:04 AM
ControlCAL polls the Display before entering Calibration Mode.
Blutarsky
04-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Should it be displayed somewhere?
Turbe
04-18-2008, 01:14 PM
No, but I guess that could be a Feature Request (use Projects from the Header Menu above)..... :D
Among other things, the Display can report Panel Size, Type (Monitor/Standalone etc.), Grade (Elite, Step D etc.)... more...
Turbe
04-18-2008, 01:18 PM
Update:
I am messing around with different timing settings for the Auto Send Option (sending the Control's Value each time the Control's Slider is moved).. I think I am going to restrict it to send only 1 or 2 times per second since overruns can happen.
Blutarsky
04-18-2008, 01:44 PM
Arrhhh.... how could we test if it was working? :confused:
Blutarsky
04-18-2008, 01:47 PM
Update:
I am messing around with different timing settings for the Auto Send Option (sending the Control's Value each time the Control's Slider is moved).. I think I am going to restrict it to send only 1 or 2 times per second since overruns can happen.
You could simply "send" once, when the slider is released....
Turbe
04-18-2008, 01:50 PM
Arrhhh.... how could we test if it was working? :confused:
Well, I thought about this, perhaps I will make it so you can change this in a .ini or Preferences option from the Menu.
However, since I have to format the output (and support many number formats for the various Manufacturers), check for other variables due to this 'Open Design', the buffers can be overrun if you are trying to move the sliders from one end to the other quickly. Of course, I think what you all really want is to move the slider slowly to see the changes happen on the Display.. moving the slider quickly will skip steps of course.
Turbe
04-18-2008, 02:03 PM
You could simply "send" once, when the slider is released....
Doesn't that defeat the purpose? I thought you wanted to be able to see the changes are you move the slider.
I tested the option to only send after the mouse button is released, but it really only saves a little time and really gets frustrating when you want to check how 3 or 4 values change the PQ... I guess I will look into this option again.
Of course, this is where your input/feedback is important.. :D
gatornavy
04-18-2008, 11:44 PM
You could simply "send" once, when the slider is released....
I agree, this would make things much smoother.
Wolfy
04-19-2008, 12:52 AM
Doesn't that defeat the purpose? I thought you wanted to be able to see the changes are you move the slider.
I tested the option to only send after the mouse button is released, but it really only saves a little time and really gets frustrating when you want to check how 3 or 4 values change the PQ... I guess I will look into this option again.
Of course, this is where your input/feedback is important.. :DI tend to agree with you, Shawn. The only control where I don't think that a Send(or Set)-button is necessary is SELECT INPUT. Except perhaps as a way to make the display ready to receive instructions. I switch between Calibration Mode enabled/disabled when I switch calibration DVDs (I use one for gamma, grayscale measurements; another for color measurements). If I click START CALIBRATION I often get the error "Display's ISF Level is not Compatible with this profile!" (of course clicking START CALIBRATION again enables Calibration Mode) but if I click on the Set-button next to SELECT INPUT before clicking START CALIBRATION it enables Calibration Mode without any error, so perhaps it's best left in place. ;)
I think that in most other cases it is very beneficial to be able to set controls with the slider without anything being sent to the display and then use Send All to be able to observe the impact on the image or likewise set a single control and watch the display as you press Send.
Being able to change this in you preferences of .ini sounds like a very good idea though for those that prefers not having to use a Send-button.
A far more important change, IMHO, would be to change the G9 controls to individual vertical sliders to get a visual representation on how they are set.
Turbe
04-19-2008, 07:35 PM
I may have the next build ready tomorrow... with Options for Auto Send and Disabling the Error Dialogs.
I just need to finish the INI functions and do some additional testing here but I'm done for the night.. Wife wants her Movie Night on the Big Screen.. :D
BTW, you will be able to change some things in the INI file - option to override the Display Profile's Wait_For Setting (helpful if the Display Profile is Locked) and force your own value, change Auto Send timings and other options in the future.
-Shawn
Turbe
04-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Build 12 is now available (Build Info will be updated in Post #1):
Download Link is in the first Post.
v1.41 Beta:
Build 12 - 04/20/2008
+Auto Send option - Control's Value is automatically sent when its Slider is moved without the need to Press the Control's SEND Button.
+Disable Error Dialogs option - Some Error Dialogs can now be disabled.
+ControlCAL.ini config file - Allows you to tune ControlCAL's performance. See Post #4 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8&postcount=4) for more information.
+Additional Settings are saved on exit (Auto Send, Auto Add CR, Confirm Send, Error Dialogs and HEX Input).
-Removed Keyboard Key Toggles (F5, F7 and F8).
+Some Code optimized or re-written to save memory and improve performance.
Build 11 - 04/17/2008
+All Pioneer Display Regions now Supported (North America, Europe, Australia, China and General Regions).
+Changed the labels for the two Buttons to Enter/Exit Calibration (START CALIBRATION and END CALIBRATION).
NOTE:
I did decide not to automatically send a command to 'Prep' the Display in this Build. I know some of you experience the 'Display's ISF Level is not Compatible with this Profile' Dialog after Pressing the START CALIBRATION Button, requiring you to Press this Button a second time. I need to get additional information from you:
Are you starting with your Display Powered Off (Standby) and use the POWER ON Button in ControlCAL?
-Shawn
Turbe
04-20-2008, 08:19 PM
... and please do post feedback about the new features (both good and bad).. :D
-Shawn
Blutarsky
04-21-2008, 03:17 AM
Yes some times I do start calibration with the TV on, bypassing the power on button.
You could check, once user press any button skipping the power on button, if the TV is allready ON.
Tonight, once home, I'll test the newer version, but I won't go any further calibrating until the correct calibration flow is well known.
While I was discussing with Bumtious on the british forum, I was pointing out how tricky is the G9 tool due to the big shifts on the "left side" of they grayscale and the little, if none, on the "right side": it looks like he feels quite comfortable with that beheaviour, so there may be a well know calibration flow that hugely helps....
Just to give an idea, it could be that, in the calibration loop, you start using the G9 tool since the first "cycles", say only on the left side (low values) without using the RGB cuts and ending using the right side (high values)....
I'm writing silly things just to give an idea on how it could be used, and to point out that if there's a well known usage it shoul be described properly!
Wolfy
04-21-2008, 08:04 AM
I have tested build 12 with no isses.
Unchecking Error Dialogs resulted in that no warning/error dialogs pops up anymore when I refresh Profile P2. Neither does for example clicking on ISF Day before clicking START CALIBRATION, but you still see that there's an error from the display in the terminal. Very nice :)
Edited ControlCAL.ini:
[Profile]
Forced_Wait_For=1000
Took a long freaking time to end calibration ;)
[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=1
The UI became very responsive, though I see no real reason to change the default which works well.
[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=60
Made the UI a bit sluggish and unresponsive at times. What I mean by that is that if I select a slider and press on the left or right arrow in approximately a constant timing, values are being sent in the same timing but from time to time there's a pause in the sending. After a while sending starts again and sends the current value of the slider, e.g. for contrast slider the values being sent would be 40 - 39 - 38 - ... - 35 - 34 - 33 - 32 - ... - 29... it doesn't seem to look up though.
I think that I have changed my mind regarding Auto Send, it is very nice to select a slider and change the value with left/right arrow on the keyboard while watching the change on the display. Well done, Blutarsky, for suggesting this change and well done, Shawn, for coding it into the program :)
I'll continue to use build 12 and report back should I find any problem.
Turbe
04-21-2008, 08:15 AM
Great feedback :D
[Profile]
Forced_Wait_For=1000
The Wait_Time saved within the Pioneer Display Profiles is 500ms, so I would not set this to 1000. Yesterday, if I remember correctly, gatornavy reported that 100 works for him. A lower number will improve performance. I am not sure I would go that low, maybe 200 but if you experience issues, set this higher or to -1. It will depend on your computer's processor, COM Port speed and the Display itself.
I won't change the saved Display Profile setting until many more have tested as 500ms was recommended to me.
Please try setting it to less than 500 (you can even set 0 but I doubt the Display would consistently keep up with communications) and post your results here. I recommend trying 400, 300, 200 and 100.
100 should make it feel zippy.. :D
Remember, this setting will force the Wait_Time value you entered (if not -1) for all Profiles loaded in the future.
[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=1
Try setting this to 10, 6 and 5. IMO, best settings are < 30, but I did want 31 to 60 just in case....
I personally liked 15 but you will want to find what works best for you.... :D
Please post feedback..
-Shawn
Blutarsky
04-21-2008, 09:49 AM
Where should we post new feature requests?
Wolfy
04-21-2008, 10:05 AM
...Please post feedback..
-ShawnExcellent explanations, I will play with the settings and report back.
Turbe
04-21-2008, 10:10 AM
Where should we post new feature requests?
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/project.php
Available in the Menu Bar at the top of each page ('Projects').
Select Display Profiles - if you want to suggest layout changes etc.
Select ControlCAL - BETA - for suggestions, bugs etc for the Main Application.
Usually, you will just post in ControlCAL - BETA.
Then, Click on 'Post New Issue' and Select Bug or Feature (Task would usually only be used by me - asking for specific Tests etc). Make sure you select the Version you are reporting on (there is a Combobox Selection).
-Shawn
Blutarsky
04-22-2008, 06:06 AM
I can't say that I have experienced this.
....(CUT).....
Comments?
Yep, try it in your favorite calibration tool with the grayscale graph....
Blutarsky
04-22-2008, 06:20 AM
Updated Project with some requests (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/project.php)
Turbe
04-22-2008, 08:03 AM
Thanks Blutarsky :D
That sure helps me to keep track of feature requests.... I did comment on one of them already.
Other Members can also vote on features.... :)
Did you get a chance to try Auto Send and changing the Forced_Wait_For setting in the .ini?
Wolfy
04-22-2008, 08:15 AM
Yep, try it in your favorite calibration tool with the grayscale graph....Yup, I meant the gamma graph.
Wolfy
04-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Reporting back just to say that I'm still testing the different settings in ControlCAL.ini. I want to give each setting some time to be sure(ish) that I have no issue with the setting.
Turbe
04-23-2008, 01:12 PM
Looking forward to your additional feedback.. :D
Hopefully, others will also test with different ControlCAL.ini settings and report back.....
I'm sorry if I shut down the forum while you were on.. I didn't even check to see who was on but I had to update vBulletin to 3.6.10.
-Shawn
HDCraig
04-23-2008, 01:42 PM
Thumbs up on autosend, I really like using the arrow keys after selecting one of the slider controls.
I also set my waitfor setting to 200 and I don't think i've had any problems. ControlCAL seems much more responsive (I didn't think it was slow before though). I'll continue with that setting and report any problems, I may even try 100.
keep up the great work turbe
HDCraig
04-23-2008, 01:45 PM
I should say that though I really like that you added autosend, I think it should have been included since the first version...:cool:
Wolfy
04-24-2008, 01:02 AM
...I'm sorry if I shut down the forum while you were on.. I didn't even check to see who was on but I had to update vBulletin to 3.6.10.
-ShawnNo worries mate, I got in what I had to say :D
Blutarsky
04-24-2008, 03:15 AM
Ok I've tried the beta 12.
The autosend works very well, even though I've tried to change
AutoSend_Timing=1
But really there's no difference in speed terms between the default 15 and 1....
What absolutely you should add to user input to enhance autosend is to enable the keyboard TAB (and shift+TAB to goback) to navigate quickly from one control to the next-previous one.
joestefano
04-25-2008, 04:59 AM
Very impressed with work done so far.
Autosend works great, To much swing in adjustment on piont Gamma, can we get it more finite? Tab between adjustments a good idea. More to follow
Turbe
04-25-2008, 07:37 AM
Any reason that you did not put the color management controls in order of R:G:B:Y:C:M ?
You have the high and low controls in order of RGB
Check out the picture in the post below (by Wolfy):
ControlCAL v. 1.41 Beta2 build 12.
M/B: ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe.
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ (2.09 GHz).
RAM: 2 GB Corsair.
OPsys: Windows XP Pro, SP2, fully up to date.
COM1 setting: BPS: 9600, Data Bits: 8, Parity: None, Stop Bits: 1, Flow Control: None.
Display: Pioneer PDP-428XD, RS-232 setting: 9600BPS
Cable: Straight serial cable female-female DB9, approximately 3 m.
ControlCAL.ini settings:
Forced_Wait_For:
Legend: Setting: Refresh/Send All (TV Response Time/ControlCAL Response Time); End Calibration (TV Response Time/ControlCAL Response Time); No issues/Issues.
All measurements are in seconds. I used Profile P1 for all measurements.
By TV Response Time I mean the time it takes from start to fisnish for the TV to show that it has completed receiving/sending the data, e.g. the time from start to finish form when you click Refresh until the ISF menu on the TV has stopped flashing.
By ControlCAL Response Time I mean the time it takes from start to finish for ControlCAL's UI to show that it has completed receiving/sending the data, e.g. the time from start to finish from when you click Refresh and the UI shows the message "Polling Display - Please Wait..." and until it disappears.
1000: Refresh/Send All (21/21); End Calibration (26/33); No issues (1).
-1 (Default = 500): Refresh/Send All (11/11); End Calibration (26/17); No issues (2).
400: Refresh/Send All (11/8); End Calibration (26/13); No issues.
300: Refresh/Send All (11/6); End Calibration (26/10); No issues.
200: Refresh/Send All (11/4); End Calibration (26/7); No issues.
100: Refresh/Send All (11/2); End Calibration (26/4); Issues (3).
(1): I know that the setting of 1000 makes no sense, I only included it for reference to other settings. It does however make for a better timing for when the "ISF Calibration Mode has been disabled" dialog appears after having clicked End Calibration ;)
(2): ControlCAL is slightly faster than the TV.
(3): After having entered ISF Day/Night, when clicking Refresh the following labels turns red: Sharpness, Color Management-R, G-Low, B-Low, R Gamma, G Gamma. Subsequent clicks on Refresh or Send All turns some labels back to normal, but never all of the labels. I can still move the red sliders and the values are being sent to the display and were saved when I click Save Settings and End Calibration so I'm not sure if this only is a "cosmetic" issue.
AutoSend_Timing:
No issue with any setting from the default of 15 to 10, 6 or 5. The only difference I've noticed is that for the settings 6 and 5 the sliders for Color Management has slightly better response, meaning that I can select one of the CM sliders and click on the right or left arrow at a rate of about two presses a second and the values are continuously being sent to the TV. With the settings above that I need to press with a rate about one press per second otherwise the slider won't change its setting from one press to the next.
Conclusion: From my testing I have only had issues with the setting Forced_Wait_For set to 100 and even for that setting nothing happened other than some labels turning red.
Having said that, one might have to select a different RS-232 setting in the Pioneer to benefit from the lower settings for Forced_Wait_For, otherwise you will still be waiting for the TV to finish(?). Personally though I see no need for it, so I will stick with the default settings which I am very pleased with.
Turbe
04-25-2008, 03:13 PM
I started this Thread (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14) to help others find information about Calibration easily.
If any of you have anything to add, please feel free to post in that Thread.
Blutarsky, I made sure your Thread on AVS was linked... :D
Wolfy
04-26-2008, 12:44 AM
Good initiative, Shawn!
Blutarsky
04-26-2008, 01:35 AM
Blutarsky, I made sure your Thread on AVS was linked... :D
...........................
:)
Wolfy
04-27-2008, 11:29 PM
Any comment on what I posted above. Did it not make any sense or has no one else tested the settings in the .ini file?
gatornavy
04-28-2008, 01:02 AM
Any comment on what I posted above. Did it not make any sense or has no one else tested the settings in the .ini file?
I've gotten exactly the same results as you, just been too busy with work to post in here. This new build is SOOO much better than the previous ones.
Blutarsky
04-28-2008, 01:09 AM
Not yet. I will soon.
Wolfy
04-28-2008, 01:33 AM
I've gotten exactly the same results as you, just been too busy with work to post in here. This new build is SOOO much better than the previous ones.Cheers for the reply :)
Blutarsky
04-28-2008, 02:28 AM
Not yet. I will soon.
psychopomp1
04-28-2008, 12:08 PM
Hi everybody
I've had a quick play with the software but am i right in saying that there are
no PRE-SET setting profiles available which i can use to calibrate my Pioneer
8G? I mean when i load the 8G profiles into the software, all the individual
settings are set to 0. Has anyone created a generic settings profile which work
out the best on the Pioneer 8G? Would appreciate if some kind soul could pass me their settings. I mainly watch Sky Standard Definition material here in the UK on my 428XD.
Thanks
Shahid
Turbe
04-28-2008, 12:52 PM
Build 14 is now available:
Download Link is in the first Post.
Build 14 - 04/28/2008
+Last two Profiles Loaded will be available in the File Menu for Quick Load.
+Added Option to Load a specific Profile on Startup (new ControlCAL.ini (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8&postcount=4) option - [Profile] Startup_Load=).
+Added Confirmation Dialog for ISF RESET CURRENT Button.
+'Polling Display, Please Wait...' now displayed when Refreshing Gamma Only.
+Each Control's Label should no longer flash sporadically*/*1.
+Several functions re-written*.
+Minor Bug fixed in Control #6 Slider Position (COLOR MANAGMENT G in ISF C3 P1).
+Changed Keys used in the Menus for some Commands/Options.
*ControlCAL Process' CPU USAGE reduced by 50% (as tested on three computers).
*1 As originally pointed out to me by Blutarsky :D
Turbe
04-28-2008, 01:08 PM
With Build 14, only the .EXE has changed. If you have Custom Settings in your ControlCAL.ini, do not overwrite your ControlCAL.ini (or don't unzip ControlCAL.ini from the Build 14 Package).
TEST REQUESTS:
Since several functions have been rewritten to improve performance, please test with Auto Send Disabled and Enabled (with and without your Custom ControlCAL.ini Settings) and Post Feedback.
Thanks :D
Shawn
Turbe
04-28-2008, 02:31 PM
Hi everybody
I've had a quick play with the software but am i right in saying that there are
no PRE-SET setting profiles available which i can use to calibrate my Pioneer
8G? I mean when i load the 8G profiles into the software, all the individual
settings are set to 0. Has anyone created a generic settings profile which work
out the best on the Pioneer 8G? Would appreciate if some kind soul could pass me their settings. I mainly watch Sky Standard Definition material here in the UK on my 428XD.
Thanks
Shahid
Hi Shahid,
ControlCAL should really be used with a meter (i.e. Eye-One Display LT / 2) and a application like ColorHCFR or CalMAN to Calibrate your Display to your Sources and Environment.
You may find the links in the following thread helpful:
Perhaps another ControlCAL User can share their Settings with you (Anyone?) but remember, Settings that work well for one User will most likely/may not work well for you.
-Shawn
Wolfy
04-28-2008, 03:13 PM
Shawn makes a very good point. I have tested many settings provided by very experienced user and sometimes professional ISF calibrators and none of them has worked well for my particular 8G display. Maybe if you have the same model and the same source using the same settings all through the video chain you could get close, but that's the point with calibration, to get your particular display as close to optimal as possible.
Wolfy
04-28-2008, 03:15 PM
Build 14 is now available:
...
+Added Option to Load a specific Profile on Startup (new ControlCAL.ini (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8&postcount=4) option - [Profile] Startup_Load2=)...I see no such setting in the new .ini file. Should we just add it ourselves or did something go wrong with your upload?
Blutarsky
04-28-2008, 03:17 PM
I see no such setting in the new .ini file. Should we just add it ourselves or did something go wrong with your upload?
I did it manually...
Wolfy
04-28-2008, 03:24 PM
I did it manually...OK, did it work as expected?
Turbe
04-28-2008, 03:37 PM
I see no such setting in the new .ini file. Should we just add it ourselves or did something go wrong with your upload?
I did it manually...
That is correct, it is optional so just manually add it under [Profile].
Make sure the Path is Absolute, not Relative to ControlCAL's Directory. BTW, I made a mistake initially when I typed the Changelog, it is: Startup_Load= (NOT Startup_Load2=).
An example is posted HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8&postcount=4).
-Shawn
HDCraig
04-28-2008, 03:49 PM
Works like a charm, you update quick
I'll Post after I spend more time with the new version
Blutarsky
04-29-2008, 12:12 AM
OK, did it work as expected?
...........................
Yes
I have somes space characters in the path so I've quoted the string with ""
Wolfy
04-29-2008, 04:24 AM
...........................
Yes
I have somes space characters in the path so I've quoted the string with ""Gotcha!
Cheers, Blutarsky and Shawn for confirming.
joestefano
04-30-2008, 04:54 PM
Has anyone found an easy way to arrange the windows of ControlCal so that you can use a Cal/meter software at the same time. Shawn, can you make your widows so that we can size them?
Turbe
04-30-2008, 05:01 PM
You can uncheck Advanced under File to hide the Terminal Window.
There are two reason why I put the Gamma Controls in a separate window:
1) I could create different Gamma Layouts in the future (only RGB like now or show Controls for all 9 Points in the C3 Interface).
2) So you could move/minimize this window.
Shawn, can you make your widows so that we can size them?
There were some reasons I chose not to allow resize/scrolling, as usual, I'm open to all feedback.
Perhaps you should POST THIS FEATURE REQUEST (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/projectpost.php?do=addissue&projectid=3&issuetypeid=feature) under Projects.. :D
I would also be interested to read how others have organize their windows... ControlCAL is best used with a wide-screen.
EDIT: BTW, are you using ColorHCFR, CalMAN, other?
-Shawn
joestefano
04-30-2008, 05:14 PM
CalMan V3,
I designed my own layout that includes alot of info. I could reduce it down to make it fit better.
Turbe
04-30-2008, 05:22 PM
Joe,
Any chance that you can post a full screen screencap of your layout with CalMAN and ControlCAL?
Also, I am assuming you are using a widescreen with your laptop/desktop, is this correct?
Shawn
joestefano
04-30-2008, 05:40 PM
Your also assuming I know how to do a "screencap" If my kids aren't around I'm screwed. I'm using a new DELL Vostro 15" Tell me how to do a "screencap" and I'll try.
Turbe
04-30-2008, 05:49 PM
XP (Vista I think too):
To take a cap of your entire desktop, Press the PrtScrn (PrintScreen) Button on your keyboard. Don't worry, it won't PRINT, the Key has a Legacy Label.
Load MS Paint (Start Menu, All Programs, Accessories, Paint) and Paste (Edit, Paste or Press Ctrl-V). Save the pic as a PNG or JPEG and then attach that file to a Post here.
There are size limits for attachments.
Also, is your Display Size 15" or 15.4"? 15.4" is usually widescreen but 15" is not.
Shawn
BTW: If you wanted to only take a cap of a specific Window, select the Window and Press ALT and PrtScrn together. I would like to see the entire desktop as you have it organized so use the steps above.
Wolfy
05-01-2008, 06:24 AM
Good point, joestefano, been meaning to ask about this but kept forgetting to.
I have a 16:10 widescreen LCD monitor, 1680x1050. I'd like to have it arranged similarly to this but with CC on the right side (don't ask me why, I just prefer it that way):
Everytime I open a different profile though the extra window stacks up to the right of the profile window and if the profile window is positioned to the right the extra windows falls outside of the screen and you can't get hold of it:
http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc849/th_47476_desktop2_122_849lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=47476_desktop2_122_849lo.jpg)
Hence I use ALT+TAB or a mouse click to switch between HCFR and CC. It would be nice if the window position were saved when you moved them, but I don't know how difficult programming that would be and it's not that important.
Turbe
05-01-2008, 07:50 AM
It would be nice if the window position were saved when you moved them, but I don't know how difficult programming that would be and it's not that important.
This is a bug, and I will need to address this in the the next Build. Window Positions are saved, but I have confirmed that the Extras Window is automatically moving to the right of the Main Window on Startup.
Wolfy
05-01-2008, 01:10 PM
This is a bug, and I will need to address this in the the next Build. Window Positions are saved, but I have confirmed that the Extras Window is automatically moving to the right of the Main Window on Startup.Ah right, I should have mentioned it directly when I noticed it then, sorry about that.
joestefano
05-04-2008, 04:18 PM
Done with Cal. Save, End Cal. Power off.
Then... Power On, Start Cal. Set input, Refresh, Error Message.thru all values all turn red no readings?
Did I do something wrong?
Where is Gamma 1.2.3 ?
Why are there 2 Color Temp sliders Pg 1 and 2 ?
Turbe
05-04-2008, 06:27 PM
Then... Power On, Start Cal. Set input, Refresh, Error Message.thru all values all turn red no readings?
After you Set Input, did you Press the ISF DAY or ISF NIGHT Button (and before you Pressed REFRESH ALL)?
Where is Gamma 1.2.3 ?
The 9 Point Gamma replaces that in ISF Modes.
Why are there 2 Color Temp sliders Pg 1 and 2 ?
I had room so I kept COLOR TEMP in both Profiles.. :D
GorGorBey
05-06-2008, 01:22 PM
Hi
I'm french so please be tolerent with my poor english...
I face one issue at the beginning (I receive the message : not communication from display ! when i click Start Calibration...)
I think that my cable is a serial cable usedin the past with a printer... Do you think that it could be the root cause of this issue ?
I already validated the com port and the parameter of the Plasma...
Thanks
Turbe
05-06-2008, 03:31 PM
How many Pins does the cable have on each end?
Are you using a USB to Serial Adapter? I just received a Keyspan (http://www.keyspan.com/products/usa19hs/) for testing and evaluation (and I will be posting results soon)... USB to Serial Adapters should work.
Can you take pictures of each end of the cable and post them?
Usually, if you have a serial port on your computer, it has 9-pins.
-Shawn
GorGorBey
05-06-2008, 03:35 PM
Of course this cable is a DB9/DB9 Serial Cable. In this past it was used with a printer...
But perhaps it's not a straight cable...
Turbe
05-06-2008, 03:37 PM
I already validated the com port and the parameter of the Plasma...
I also recommend setting the COM/Serial Port on both the Display and your Computer (in ControlCAL) to 9600 Baud.
Of course this cable is a DB9/DB9 Serial Cable. In this past it was used with a printer...
But perhaps it's not a straight cable...
Serial Printer? I have not seen one of those for over a decade.. :D
Turbe
05-06-2008, 03:45 PM
Wolfy, where did you purchase your serial cable from?
GorGorBey
05-06-2008, 03:48 PM
The settings seem to be ok...I validated the settings on the plasma and it shows 9600 bps and that's all...The defaut value of the software is set to the same value...
Yes it's true...this cable is very old... but a straight DB9/DB9 cable is so difficult to find...
Turbe
05-06-2008, 04:04 PM
but a straight DB9/DB9 cable is so difficult to find...
http://www.ebay.fr/
http://www.amazon.fr/
:D
Wolfy
05-07-2008, 06:09 AM
Wolfy, where did you purchase your serial cable from?I got them from datanova.se (http://datanova.se/welcome).
I purchased two of these: DEL-37D (http://datanova.se/ItemInfo?itemId=36738248&itemName=9-poligt+f%C3%B6rl%C3%A4ngningskabel,+DB9ho-DB9ho,+1,8M)
and a male-male low profile adapter to connect them together: DEL-93 (http://datanova.se/ItemInfo?itemId=36738361&itemName=K%C3%B6nbytare+mini+DB9ha-ha)
Manufacturer is Deltaco (http://www.deltaco.se/), no idea if datanova sells outside of Sweden or if Deltaco exports outside of Scandinavia.
Wolfy
05-07-2008, 06:14 AM
Shawn, about your test request, I have been using the latest build with and without Auto Send, but haven't edited the default settings in ControlCAL.ini other than adding a path to the profile I want to open.
So far no issues at all.
GorGorBey
05-07-2008, 08:41 AM
Thanks for the information.
I ordered one Female/Female Straight cable.
It's too long to wait...
What display model do you have Wolfy ?
Wolfy
05-07-2008, 09:01 AM
Pio PDP-428XD
mdfire
05-07-2008, 12:17 PM
Is this software only valid for US versions of Pio i.e. it doesnt include the European PDP 508XD?
Serial
05-07-2008, 12:53 PM
Is this software only valid for US versions of Pio i.e. it doesnt include the European PDP 508XD?
ControlCAL works with all Pioneer Regions including Europe. :D
Your Display needs to be an Elite or equivalent (that has the ISFccc options).
GorGorBey
05-09-2008, 05:15 AM
How many Pins does the cable have on each end?
Are you using a USB to Serial Adapter? I just received a Keyspan (http://www.keyspan.com/products/usa19hs/) for testing and evaluation (and I will be posting results soon)... USB to Serial Adapters should work.
Can you take pictures of each end of the cable and post them?
Usually, if you have a serial port on your computer, it has 9-pins.
-Shawn
I was fed up to wait so I bought one extra cable (USB to Serial Adapter).
It simulates one COM entry. I will do a test tonight.
It could be interesting to know if the software works with a G8 display using this cable (easier to find)
Blutarsky
05-09-2008, 05:25 AM
I am using a USB to serial adapter. it Works
mdfire
05-09-2008, 11:53 AM
Guys, going to try out ControlCal for first time this weekend. Tried a few calibrations with HCFR and user menu the other night. First couple of calibrations showed improvements in RGB graph but gamma then went off. Third calibration showed RGB moving off again. Any tips on areas where I should look at to bring these back on line again?:confused:
GorGorBey
05-09-2008, 02:21 PM
I am using a USB to serial adapter. it Works
My first impression is very good (it works :)). The USB to Serial Cable works very well…
I just let activated the warning dialogs but in fact I never saw any warnings…
I have done a very simple test. And...this test was a success. I didn’t face any major issues…
I was able to activate ISF Night and ISF Day for a specific Input.
The first time I forgot to save. I end the calibration. I power off the display and I check if the new option was available (ISF Day) and it wasn’t…
I suggest that this button (Save button) be placed on the main window (between Refresh and End Calibration for instance). On my laptop the second window was not totally available and the save button was hidden. If something has changed we shouldn’t be able to end the calibration (one dialog box should be available to validate or invalidate this choice)
I’m surprised of the order for pure cinema…This order is different from the original menu. Is it normal…
The first impression is very good. I will do a complete calibration tonight and I will post results and comments regarding the ControlCAL tool.
I Just have one Question : What mean the option : Y-Delay ?
Turbe
05-09-2008, 02:33 PM
GorGorBey, Thanks for your initial impression... :D
I Just have one Question : What mean the option : Y-Delay ?
That Setting doesn't apply to the digital ports (HDMI) but you would use it for SVideo etc.
mdfire
05-09-2008, 04:46 PM
I had problems initally connecting and was getting the ISF Level Not Supported dialog. Tried all the recommendations in the instructions. No Luck. The laptop I was using didnt have a serial connection so I was using the USB/serial convertor (not the one recommended on the forum). I was on the point of giving up and going to bed when I tried my old work laptop which I had just happended to take home for the weekend. It had a serial connection and ran XP instead of vista. Bingo!! Will need to investigate the connection with the USB connector tomorrow.
Anyway, once I got started I experienced no problems. Shawn this really is an impressive piece of work!!!:cool:
I have easily set up the Day and Night profiles. Once calibration was complete I went into the user menu to check and viola there they were.
Gotta sleep. but will get stuck into calibrating tomorrow.
Wolfy
05-10-2008, 02:10 AM
My first impression is very good (it works :)). The USB to Serial Cable works very well…Good stuff :)
The things you bring up will be addressed when Shawn releases the dedicated C3 interface.
mdfire
05-10-2008, 08:43 AM
Still really impressed with programme. USB Converter definitely not working so I will try to get the Keyspan. One benefit is though that I have one laptop connected to the display to run ControlCal and the other connected to the probe to run HCFR..great visually:)
I find that if I wait 5-10 seconds after hitting the power on button before I hit start calibration I dont get the ISF Level not supported message.
A minor point (and this is splitting hairs) is that I think it would be good if the Colour Management sliders had numbers shown as per the highs and lows.
Anyway, I have square eyes by this stage and it is saturday so thats enough for today. Ive attached my last HCFR readings which I am pleased with so far.:D
Turbe
05-10-2008, 08:49 AM
USB Converter definitely not working so I will try to get the Keyspan.
Let me try my Keyspan first before you go out and purchase one. They sent me one for testing but I have not taken the time to do so. I will later today. I don't think there will be any problems and I do want to officially support and recommend one (hopefully the Keyspan).
I am also looking at testing a Wireless RS232 Solution, but the Company I'm interested in wants to give me a 50% discount for testing whereas I want to test it and return it if need be.
I find that if I wait 5-10 seconds after hitting the power on button before I hit start calibration I dont get the ISF Level not supported message.
Yes, you need to wait until your Display completes its Power On Cycle (I need to add this point to the instructions).
A minor point (and this is splitting hairs) is that I think it would be good if the Colour Management sliders had numbers shown as per the highs and lows.
I am not following you here.. can you please explain your request? :D
Still really impressed with programme.
Thank You :D I am still improving ControlCAL.....
mdfire
05-10-2008, 08:52 AM
Are there any special port settings to use a USB Serial Converter. The converter I have is just generic one - no manufacturers name on it.
mdfire
05-10-2008, 08:55 AM
I am not following you here.. can you please explain your request? :D
Im not sure what Ive seen here. But earlier when I was calibrating there were no numbers adjacent to the slider for colour management. I was having to rely on the ticks. Now when I opened up Controlcal to check they were clearly there? Will check this again later so ignore for now.. sorry
Turbe
05-10-2008, 08:59 AM
Are there any special port settings to use a USB Serial Converter. The converter I have is just generic one - no manufacturers name on it.
No, in fact you want it to mimic a standard Serial Port 100% and there are some that don't do this properly. I will test the Keyspan later today and post my results (though I don't think there will be any problems).
mdfire
05-10-2008, 09:04 AM
I can work with the two laptops until I decide on the keyspan.
I found out the problem with the numbers missing. The laptop I was using for Controlcal has quite a small screen width and the resolution was set too low so it was squeezing the page. Once I changed the res the numbers next to the sliders reappeared.
GorGorBey
05-10-2008, 10:51 AM
Good evening :cool:
First of all I would like to congratulate you for this nice tool. The comments below are just here to help (little) you to improve the tool...
I calibrated my FULL HD LX508 Pioneer yesterday night till 5.00AM this morning.
The calibration has been done during 4 hours...
- The Gamma table is very difficult to use (each time you have to reset gamma. It's a pain...). It’s impossible to have a global view of all parameters…At the end, after several errors and loss, I copied all parameters in a file to ensure a backup...I hope that this feature will be available very soon because it's perhaps the most important weaknesses...
- I faced one major issue (4 times the calibration mode has been disabled by itself. It's not linked to time out issues. It's strange...The only solution I found was to save and to end the calibration each 20 minutes to be sure that my settings are not lost...
Did you know this issue ?
- One option to copy parameter from ISF Night to ISF Day should be available...Globally these settings are similar (except Luminosity and Contrast of course). I'm talking here about gamma parameters because it's already available for other parameters...
- It could be a good thing if we can have our name at the end of the calibration. I don't know if there is some place available... It will add value to the tool...
The results were very good:
- Delta E below 2 from 20IRE to 100IRE (except for 2 values with Delta E below 3 )
- Flat Gamma Curve between 2.1 and 2.2 (it's my preference...)
- Excellent CIE Diagram...
I will post the ColorHCFR.chc later…If you want that I test something don’t hesitate to ask me. I have several others calibrations to do for DTV and other input entries…
Thanks...
mdfire
05-10-2008, 11:19 AM
Hi GorGorbey, good post. Your results look excellent. Could you post flow procedure, colour meter used etc.
Good evening :cool:
The results were very good:
- Delta E below 2 from 20IRE to 100IRE (except for 2 values with Delta E below 3 )
- Flat Gamma Curve between 2.1 and 2.2 (it's my preference...)
- Excellent CIE Diagram...
I will post the ColorHCFR.chc later…If you want that I test something don’t hesitate to ask me. I have several others calibrations to do for DTV and other input entries…
Thanks...
Turbe
05-10-2008, 06:52 PM
I just tested the Keyspan and as expected there are no problems with ControlCAL.
I posted more HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29)
Turbe
05-11-2008, 12:15 AM
Off Topic, but I am finally allowed to comment on one of the new 9G Features (in some Models) - Connect via Winsock....
...The results were very good:
- Delta E below 2 from 20IRE to 100IRE (except for 2 values with Delta E below 3 )
- Flat Gamma Curve between 2.1 and 2.2 (it's my preference...)
- Excellent CIE Diagram...Interesting, did you move the primary colors with Color Management?
I think that the LX508D has even better primary colors than the HD Ready models so perhaps you didn't have to do that. In my experience when you move the primary colors with the CM is when it becomes a real pain to get an optimal gray scale and a flat gamma curve.
mdfire
05-11-2008, 03:59 AM
Yes I had an almost perfect RGB graph and then when I started looking at the CM, I lost it completely:mad:
Interesting, did you move the primary colors with Color Management?
I think that the LX508D has even better primary colors than the HD Ready models so perhaps you didn't have to do that. In my experience when you move the primary colors with the CM is when it becomes a real pain to get an optimal gray scale and a flat gamma curve.
Wolfy
05-11-2008, 04:48 AM
Same here, as soon as I touch the CM it's an uphill battle. I was hoping the the 9 point controls would help, but they are not helpful enough (too much happens with each increment). At least I have not found a way to use it after I've used the CM.
I'm looking into using CalMAN to use a custom white point target where I use the primary colors and D65 without using the Pioneer CM.
GorGorBey
05-11-2008, 05:24 AM
I redo the calibration this morning. Here are the results I was able to reach
I started with Color Management First and I worked on RVB curvers and Gamma after...
I will tune the Plasma tonight but the results are already excellents...
GorGorBey
05-11-2008, 05:26 AM
Sorry I forgot to put the files...
mdfire
05-11-2008, 06:13 AM
I found the 9 point control useful in sorting out the 90IRE. Basically I adjusted the 80IRE gamma point and it flatened the grayscale at 90 and 100. I found that if you try to adjust all the gamma points results go way off. I think they should only be used in certain areas in addition to the RGB Highs and Lows.
Same here, as soon as I touch the CM it's an uphill battle. I was hoping the the 9 point controls would help, but they are not helpful enough (too much happens with each increment). At least I have not found a way to use it after I've used the CM.
I'm looking into using CalMAN to use a custom white point target where I use the primary colors and D65 without using the Pioneer CM.
mdfire
05-11-2008, 06:21 AM
I do think we are splitting hairs though and just trying to eek out the last drop from the display. The pic quality is absolutely stunning. Even my wife commented on it last night and she is a technophob.:D:D
Wolfy
05-11-2008, 07:15 AM
You make a good point. There doesn't exist a perfect display (or video chain) so you will always have to make sacrifices. ;)
My entire point is about where to make that sacrifice during calibration of a Pio G8 with ISF C3 interface. Since I think that when using Color Space 2 with Pio 8G you are very close to standard already, it is best to sacrifice using the CM at all and instead focus on adjusting grayscale and gamma as best you can using the primary colors unadjusted.
GorGorBey
05-11-2008, 07:46 AM
You make a good point. There doesn't exist a perfect display (or video chain) so you will always have to make sacrifices. ;)
My entire point is about where to make that sacrifice during calibration of a Pio G8 with ISF C3 interface. Since I think that when using Color Space 2 with Pio 8G you are very close to standard already, it is best to sacrifice using the CM at all and instead focus on adjusting grayscale and gamma as best you can using the primary colors unadjusted.
Last time I started with Gamma and RVB and I saw a big impact when I changed colors...This time I do the opposite and it was easier to calibrate...
I needed to change a lot the primary colors (all colors). The values are in comments in the HCFR files...
But the impact on the grey scale was manageable...
Do you know what input do we need to use to put my settings (Input 4) as a basis for DTV ?
And For Home Gallery (For photo...)
Turbe
05-11-2008, 08:49 AM
Do you know what input do we need to use to put my settings (Input 4) as a basis for DTV ?
And For Home Gallery (For photo...)
You are not seeing these options under Input for your Display?
I'll check that code again (I've made changes in that area in the last Build or so).
GorGorBey
05-11-2008, 09:14 AM
You are not seeing these options under Input for your Display?
I'll check that code again (I've made changes in that area in the last Build or so).
No I see nothing....Input 1 to Input 9 thats all...
Do you know the issue I talk about yesterday... ?
Turbe
05-11-2008, 09:25 AM
No I see nothing....Input 1 to Input 9 thats all...
Do you know the issue I talk about yesterday... ?
These?
- I faced one major issue (4 times the calibration mode has been disabled by itself. It's not linked to time out issues. It's strange...The only solution I found was to save and to end the calibration each 20 minutes to be sure that my settings are not lost...
Did you know this issue ?
The ISF Mode will timeout and return to Normal Mode after 8 minutes of not receiving any commands via the serial port. It has been suggested I add a timer to help keep track of this. Work-around - Change a Control Setting, Press OSD ON/OFF or Refresh every few minutes. The 8 minute setting cannot be changed in the Display.
- It could be a good thing if we can have our name at the end of the calibration. I don't know if there is some place available... It will add value to the tool...
Do you mean in place of the: "Calibrated by ControlCAL, Display Control and Calibration Made Easy" etc. etc. Text that is saved?
First of all I would like to congratulate you for this nice tool. The comments below are just here to help (little) you to improve the tool...
Thank You! I want to know the 'bad' too, it's the only way to move forward.. :D
-Shawn
Wolfy
05-11-2008, 09:30 AM
Last time I started with Gamma and RVB and I saw a big impact when I changed colors...This time I do the opposite and it was easier to calibrate...I have always started with adjusting CM since the grayscale depends on RGB coordinates and white point coordinate.
I needed to change a lot the primary colors (all colors). The values are in comments in the HCFR files...
But the impact on the grey scale was manageable...What source are you calibrating against?
It's very interesting that you don't get much of an impact on the grayscale when moving the color using Color Management. I certainly don't get that behavior :confused:
Do you know what input do we need to use to put my settings (Input 4) as a basis for DTV ?
And For Home Gallery (For photo...)I have Input 1 through 9 listed in ControlCAL. I believe that DTV is Input 5. No idea about Home Gallery though.
GorGorBey
05-11-2008, 10:02 AM
The ISF Mode will timeout and return to Normal Mode after 8 minutes of not receiving any commands via the serial port. It has been suggested I add a timer to help keep track of this. Work-around - Change a Control Setting, Press OSD ON/OFF or Refresh every few minutes. The 8 minute setting cannot be changed in the Display.
No I sure to have send commands with a higher frequency... and the communication was cut...
3 times in less than 4 hours...If it happens again I don't know if you need some logs ?
Do you mean in place of the: "Calibrated by ControlCAL, Display Control and Calibration Made Easy" etc. etc. Text that is saved?
Not exactly...Is it possible to add our name to your comments ?
GorGorBey
05-11-2008, 10:04 AM
I have always started with adjusting CM since the grayscale depends on RGB coordinates and white point coordinate.
What source are you calibrating against?
It's very interesting that you don't get much of an impact on the grayscale when moving the color using Color Management. I certainly don't get that behavior :confused:
I have Input 1 through 9 listed in ControlCAL. I believe that DTV is Input 5. No idea about Home Gallery though.
Thanks I will test Input 5...
The source is a PS3. It's globally a neutral source...
The behavior of my display is propably different...
joestefano
05-12-2008, 04:26 PM
After using CalMAN (CM) and ContrlCAL (CC) I close CM and try to open it again while CC is still running and I can't get CM to start. Even if I shut CC down I have to restart my computer to get CM to open. All other programs seem ok ie:HCFR
Any Ideas?
Turbe
05-12-2008, 05:11 PM
That is very strange.
Wolfy, does this happen with you (I know you have CalMAN)?
Joe, have you tried this this several times?
How about exiting CC first, then CM and then try starting CM first, then CC (also try the reverse).. please post results.
Shawn
joestefano
05-12-2008, 05:23 PM
I'll try it now. Get back to you.
joestefano
05-12-2008, 06:01 PM
Well now I can't reproduce it. It has happened 3-4 times in 2 days. I'll let you know if it happens again.
Shawn, is it normal that when I click End Cal again after I've already done so I get a slew of error messages?
I still don't feel that there are enough steps in the G9 settings, I'm can't seem to reduce Blue in the lower IRE's in fact Blue doesn't seem to do much of anything, not nearly as responsive as Green and Red.
joestefano
05-12-2008, 06:25 PM
I can't get consistent result with the ISF, During Cal. Blue will shoot off the chart then return to normal. The results I get with CalMAN are far more volatile than with HCFR, I'll to get those to you.
21
22
Turbe
05-12-2008, 07:02 PM
Shawn, is it normal that when I click End Cal again after I've already done so I get a slew of error messages?
Yes, if you Press END CALIBRATION when not in Calibration Mode, the Display will return an error message (Actually sending or using most Calibration Controls when the Display is not in Calibration, it will return Errors).
Also, I increased the Forum's limit for pic attachments to 1440x900, please retry your uploading your pics.. :D
Shawn
joestefano
05-12-2008, 07:24 PM
23
24
Here you go. Let me know what you think
These were taken 24 hours apart no changes other than results.
Wolfy
05-12-2008, 11:51 PM
That is very strange.
Wolfy, does this happen with you (I know you have CalMAN)?
Joe, have you tried this this several times?
How about exiting CC first, then CM and then try starting CM first, then CC (also try the reverse).. please post results.
ShawnCalMAN CTD:ed (Crash to Desktop) once when I started ControlCAL after I had CalMAN up and running, but it has only happened once and I have been unable to repeat the problem. I open ControlCAL before CalMAN now though.
I'll see if I can provoke the CTD once I'm finished with testing CalMAN and Display 2/LT.
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 12:36 AM
23
24
Here you go. Let me know what you think
These were taken 24 hours apart no changes other than results.
The grayscale has some changes..... do you think they're acceptable?
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 01:11 AM
Here are the final results regarding ISF NIGHT:
They are better....
Delta E : below 1.6 (from 20IRE to 100) except one value at 30 IRE : 3,2
Gamma : between 2.16 to 2.21
Excellent CIE Diagram...
So it's possible with a LX508D to reach something close to perfection....
The results I get with CalMAN are far more volatile than with HCFR, I'll to get those to you.
I'm not surprised because the ColorHCFR does an average of measures (and it far better I think)
I have Input 1 through 9 listed in ControlCAL. I believe that DTV is Input 5. No idea about Home Gallery though.
The Input 5 is in fact the PC Entry...
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 02:06 AM
The measurements seem good, although not moving the primaries.
What sensor are you using? Could you perform some "day after" measurements and post them?
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 02:41 AM
The measurements seem good, although not moving the primaries.
What do you mean? My English is not good and I don’t understand the end of this sentence.
Does it mean that I didn't change a lot the primary?
What sensor are you using? Could you perform some "day after" measurements and post them?
The sensor is an I1PRO and I will do again measure tonight. But I'm sure of the results. It will be very close...The I1PRO is excellent and gives repetitive results day after day...
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 03:21 AM
I mean you didn't move the red,green & blue position using the colour management....
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 03:42 AM
I mean you didn't move the red,green & blue position using the colour management....
It's false. I changed to followings parameters :
R : +6
Y : +3
G : -9
C : +2
B : +4
M : -3
Wolfy
05-13-2008, 03:46 AM
...The Input 5 is in fact the PC Entry...Hmm, OK, sorry for leading you the wrong way. Did you find the correct Input # for DTV? I use an exteral box so I use one of the HDMI inputs.
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 04:03 AM
It's false. I changed to followings parameters :
R : +6
Y : +3
G : -9
C : +2
B : +4
M : -3
Hum.... looking at the CIE chart the primaries look out of target...was it your choice or you couldn't get them in place?
mdfire
05-13-2008, 05:17 AM
Is it possible within ControlCal to save settings to file as well as sending to the display? Quite often you can get to a point where you have good base set of readings. Then minor tweaks in some area can undo all your previous good work. Unless you have been really disciplined in writing down every single change, you can never get back to the 'base point'. I think if you could 'Save As' to file a set of settings which could be opened again and resent to the display if things go wrong then the programe would be enhanced. It would almost be like doing a reset, but with settings you are already happy with, rather than to factory default. Dont know if ive made myself clear with this.
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 05:44 AM
Hum.... looking at the CIE chart the primaries look out of target...was it your choice or you couldn't get them in place?
What ColorSpace are you using in HCFR Colorimeter SDTV or HDTV?
My Calibration has been done in SDTV (if it's not the case at your side you can change the value). Red Value and Blue Value will be perfect. Green will be a little bit over saturated...
Many of the DVD I see are standard DVD so I choose this option...
What I see is: It should be easier to adjust the colour to the reference using HDTV.....Because for me the most difficult thing was to adjust the green colour...I needed to increase red and blue colour. It I decrease a little bit these values the results will be perfect...
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 05:49 AM
Hum.... looking at the CIE chart the primaries look out of target...was it your choice or you couldn't get them in place?
What ColorSpace are you using in HCFR Colorimeter SDTV or HDTV?
My Calibration has been done in SDTV (if it's not the case at your side you can change the value). Red Value and Blue Value will be perfect. Green will be a little bit over saturated...
What I see is: It should be easier to adjust the colour to the reference using HDTV.....Because for me the most difficult thing was to adjust the green colour. And with my settings the green is very close to target
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 05:50 AM
.............. SDTV. But as most valuable calibrators state, it is more important to gain a flat grayscale and gamma curve rather than primaries in place...
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 05:50 AM
Is it possible within ControlCal to save settings to file as well as sending to the display? Quite often you can get to a point where you have good base set of readings. Then minor tweaks in some area can undo all your previous good work. Unless you have been really disciplined in writing down every single change, you can never get back to the 'base point'. I think if you could 'Save As' to file a set of settings which could be opened again and resent to the display if things go wrong then the programe would be enhanced. It would almost be like doing a reset, but with settings you are already happy with, rather than to factory default. Dont know if ive made myself clear with this.
It doesn't exist...
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 05:51 AM
.............. Sdtv
What does it mean ?
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 05:56 AM
.............. SDTV. But as most valuable calibrators state, it is more important to gain a flat grayscale and gamma curve rather than primaries in place...
I know but with this display we are able to reach both targets :).
My questions are :
- Should I continue to calibrate my display using the SDTV mode ?
- Should I need to use a HDTV DVD for the calibration ?
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 06:01 AM
I know but with this display we are able to reach both targets :).
My questions are :
- Should I continue to calibrate my display using the SDTV mode ?
- Should I need to use a HDTV DVD for the calibration ?
Well it depends on the standard you want. There has been a long discussion on this.... check out the following (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1022716)
Blutarsky
05-13-2008, 06:04 AM
Personally I think I will end using one input for SMPTE-C and one for HDTV:
- ISF day for SMPTE-C/REC601
- ISF night for REC701
Turbe
05-13-2008, 07:08 AM
Do you know what input do we need to use to put my settings (Input 4) as a basis for DTV ?
And For Home Gallery (For photo...)
Hmm, OK, sorry for leading you the wrong way. Did you find the correct Input # for DTV? I use an exteral box so I use one of the HDMI inputs.
I looked into this and there is a bug. The Tuner and HG/HMG options are broke (not showing up in the list). I have already fixed that in Build 15 and should have it available today/tomorrow (I am doing testing now). I'm sorry about that.. :(
On another note, the current BETA Activation Keys will be timing out so I will be sending an email by tomorrow with a new Activation Key.
Shawn
mdfire
05-13-2008, 07:15 AM
It doesn't exist...
It doesnt exist now
Turbe
05-13-2008, 07:15 AM
Is it possible within ControlCal to save settings to file as well as sending to the display? Quite often you can get to a point where you have good base set of readings. Then minor tweaks in some area can undo all your previous good work. Unless you have been really disciplined in writing down every single change, you can never get back to the 'base point'. I think if you could 'Save As' to file a set of settings which could be opened again and resent to the display if things go wrong then the programe would be enhanced. It would almost be like doing a reset, but with settings you are already happy with, rather than to factory default. Dont know if ive made myself clear with this.
Not in the Current Version/Build but Blutarsky did suggest that in the beginning and I like the idea. I was going to add that in the next Minor version (not Build) though.
Options like: Import and Export.
mdfire
05-13-2008, 07:19 AM
Not in the Current Version/Build but Blutarsky did suggest that and I like the idea. I was going to add that in the next Minor version (not Build) though.
Options like: Import and Export.
Exactly ...that sounds perfect and would make tweaking much easier:)
GorGorBey
05-13-2008, 07:37 AM
I looked into this and there is a bug. The Tuner and HG/HMG options are broke (not showing up in the list). I have already fixed that in Build 15 and should have it available today/tomorrow (I am doing testing now). I'm sorry about that.. :(
On another note, the current BETA Activation Keys will be timing out so I will be sending an email by tomorrow with a new Activation Key.
Shawn
Thank you Shawn...
Blutarsky
05-14-2008, 03:40 AM
GorGorBey,
it would be nice if you could post a .chc containing the measures in continuos mode, from 10 to 100, to appreciate how the i1pro beheaves.
Particullarly I'm interested in the "hops" up and down...
MAybe the optimum should be to perform some free measures showing at least 20 measures per each gray pattern (200 measures total).
Also the "day after" measurements would be good!
GorGorBey
05-14-2008, 08:10 AM
GorGorBey,
it would be nice if you could post a .chc containing the measures in continuos mode, from 10 to 100, to appreciate how the i1pro beheaves.
Particullarly I'm interested in the "hops" up and down...
MAybe the optimum should be to perform some free measures showing at least 20 measures per each gray pattern (200 measures total).
Also the "day after" measurements would be good!
I will do my best to have a two days after measure tonight...For the rest I will see how the continuous mode is working...
Blutarsky
05-14-2008, 01:04 PM
I will do my best to have a two days after measure tonight...For the rest I will see how the continuous mode is working...
you could post the 200 measurements .chc?
GorGorBey
05-14-2008, 03:01 PM
Here is the measure two days after....You can compare with the old one if you want. You'll see that these measures are very close...
The I1PRO is definitely a must :).
Futhermore it means also that the ColorHcfr tool is not in fault.
I don't have time now to do additionnal tests. I will post values later...
Turbe
05-14-2008, 04:30 PM
Build 15 is now available.
Remember, if you have customized your ControlCAL.ini file, do not unzip ControlCAL.ini within the Build 15 Package.
Build 15 - 05/14/2008
+Fixed Saving and Restoring Extras Window Position.
+Fixed Tuner and Home [Media] Gallery Input Selections.
+Fixed 9G support for North American Models (Region).
+Added 9G support for Japanese Models (Region).
+Fixed close COM port on exit (if open) - Left Disabled in Last Build.
+Auto enable OSD (On) when Ending C3 Calibration Mode (END CALIBRATION).
+Changed "ISF" Text to "Pioneer C3" in START/END CALIBRATION Success/No Success Dialogs.
+Additional Error Checking on C3 INPUT Control (when SET Button Pressed).
+Added Zoom Control to C3 Profile P2. See POST #3 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7&postcount=3).
+Code rewritten in C3 START CALIBRATION and INPUT functions.
+Additional Undisclosed C3 Options.
+Additional Minor Bug fixes.
Turbe
05-14-2008, 04:36 PM
Test Requests!
1) While in Calibration Mode, please disable your Display's OSD (OSD OFF Button), exit Calibration Mode and verify that OSD was enabled (do not use the OSD ON Button).
2) Since I rewrote some of the code for the Start Calibration and Input functions, I need verification that everything is working as it should be. Please Test the standard Inputs, Tuner Inputs and the Home [Media] Gallery Input selections. I am also specifically interested in verifying that Users with North American Region Displays can sill enter Calibration Mode.
3) Please Test the new Zoom Control in the Pioneer 8G - ISF C3 - v1-0 - P2 Profile.
If you have any problems or questions, post them.... :D
Shawn
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 01:18 AM
Here is the measure two days after....You can compare with the old one if you want. You'll see that these measures are very close...
The I1PRO is definitely a must :).
Futhermore it means also that the ColorHcfr tool is not in fault.
I don't have time now to do additionnal tests. I will post values later...
Fantastic, I'm complitely astonished! That is what I was looking for!
Neat, constant readings: the grayscale is virtually identical, don't mention gamma & luminance curve.... what a meter!
Time to make a decision! I wonder why I didn't take in account seriously UMR words about the Display LT!
Thanks a lot. If you can post the 200 measurements (20 per gray pattern from 10 to 100) it would be very kind.
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 01:47 AM
Fantastic, I'm complitely astonished! That is what I was looking for!
Neat, constant readings: the grayscale is virtually identical, don't mention gamma & luminance curve.... what a meter!
Time to make a decision! I wonder why I didn't take in account seriously UMR words about the Display LT!
Thanks a lot. If you can post the 200 measurements (20 per gray pattern from 10 to 100) it would be very kind.
:):)
I bought my OEM I1PRO at Spectracal : The prize is 700$ but dollar is low...
It's expensive but you don't need to buy their tool...
I take some measure yesterday in continuous mode (50 IRE and 60 IRE).
The results very identical 90% of the time... For the rest, It was negligible...
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 01:57 AM
Please post that 200 measurements!
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 01:59 AM
It looks like you can buy it with a 200$ rebate at 529$....
Wolfy
05-15-2008, 02:21 AM
Very interesting, here are some results for comaprison:
My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using CalMAN:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, grayscale, day1:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day1-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day1.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, grayscale, day3:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day3-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day3.png)
(click to see a larger image)
My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using HCFR:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT-HCFR-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT-HCFR.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-gamma-HCFR-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-gamma-HCFR.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-HCFR-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-HCFR.png)
(click to see a larger image)
GorGorBey's results using a i1 Pro from a reference measurement and 2 days later:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-gamma-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-gamma.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-grayscale-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-grayscale.png)
(click to see a larger image)
------
Clearly a noticeable difference and hence we don't have to wonder where the "error" when comparing results from one day to the next comes from. It's from the Display 2/LT.
Having said that, the difference in reported x, y from Display 2/LT isn't what I would call horrible, it's only in the order of 0.003 at the most, i.e. within specs.
Edit: Added more comparisons for completeness.
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 04:25 AM
Very interesting, here are some results for comaprison:
My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using CalMAN:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, grayscale, day1:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day1-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day1.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, grayscale, day3:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day3-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-gamma-day3.png)
(click to see a larger image)
My results using a i1 Display 2/LT from a reference measurement and 2 days later, using HCFR:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT-HCFR-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT-HCFR.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-gamma-HCFR-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-gamma-HCFR.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-HCFR-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Display2.LT.-grayscale-HCFR.png)
(click to see a larger image)
GorGorBey's results using a i1 Pro from a reference measurement and 2 days later:
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Gamma, where day 1 is reference (dotted line):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-gamma-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-gamma.png)
(click to see a larger image)
Grayscale, where day 1 is reference (dotted lines):
http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-grayscale-small.png (http://hem.bredband.net/b657185/pictures/display2/i1Pro-grayscale.png)
(click to see a larger image)
------
Clearly a noticeable difference and hence we don't have to wonder where the "error" when comparing results from one day to the next comes from. It's from the Display 2/LT.
Having said that, the difference in reported x, y from Display 2/LT isn't what I would call horrible, it's only in the order of 0.003 at the most, i.e. within specs.
Edit: Added more comparisons for completeness.
Wolfy....There is an error...the Gamma curves has been mixed...
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 04:30 AM
Wolfy I think the GorGorBey Gamma-HCFR chart is wrong.
The 2 .chc he posted are identical from the gamma & luminance perspective...
About the Display LT we have some fluctuations.... I'd like derek to comment on his "special handling of the meter"....
Now probabily someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 04:36 AM
Wolfy I think the GorGorBey Gamma-HCFR chart is wrong.
The 2 .chc he posted are identical from the gamma & luminance perspective...
About the Display LT we have some fluctuations.... I'd like derek to comment on his "special handling of the meter"....
Now probabily someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......
I agree....
Yesterday night I tried to optimize (last one) the DVD Input...It has been done in REC601....
This time the gamma is perfect...
The RVB Curve is still ok
The Gamut becomes excellent...
I will do again a comparison tonight and If you want I will post them....
My objective tonight is to calibrate Home Gallery and DTV with the new beta….
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 04:46 AM
Maybe tonight you could take some time to perform the 200 measurements.... :D
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 05:09 AM
Maybe tonight you could take some time to perform the 200 measurements.... :D
In the comparaison file (measure two days after in Combined histogram for free measure) you will be able to have continuous measures at 50 IRE and 60 IRE
Just ensure to have Luminance active to know when I changed from 50 to 60...
It was a secret bonus :p
Wolfy
05-15-2008, 05:11 AM
Wolfy....There is an error...the Gamma curves has been mixed...Yup, should have noticed that. That's what happens when doing several things at once, hehe. Have been fixed now.
Wolfy
05-15-2008, 05:22 AM
...About the Display LT we have some fluctuations.... I'd like derek to comment on his "special handling of the meter"....
Now probabily someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......Well, compare the HCFR results to the CalMAN results. Clearly less deviation from reference with CalMAN, so Derek may be absolutely correct in his statements. However, CalMAN or any other can't make the sensor any better than it is. It all seems to fit perfectly well within the limitations of the hardware.
From my measurements the fluctuations are marginal, less than the capability in the sensor itself and less than human comprehension and I strongly believe that you can't just watch numbers or a graph as means of telling the PQ.
Of course, like you I am frustrated with not getting the exact same result from only the day before, but if you look at the specs of the i1 Display 2/LT it is not that surprising. It would be extremely interesting to see similar results from measurements on a LCD TV. Then and only then can one conclude if using Display 2/LT to take measurements on plasma is the main issue.
For better results, indeed a i1 Pro seems the best option for calibration hardware for an enthusiast... at least as far as measuring on plasma :)
Turbe
05-15-2008, 08:01 AM
:):)
I bought my OEM I1PRO at Spectracal : The prize is 700$ but dollar is low...
It's expensive but you don't need to buy their tool...
It looks like you can buy it with a 200$ rebate at 529$....
Yes, You can buy the I1 Pro for $529 (with $200 Rebate). If you decide to buy, please use the link in the Post below.
Then and only then can one conclude if using Display 2/LT to take measurements on plasma is the main issue.
Moreover we don't know where those fluctuations are really happening.
We know that we can push the dE into the <3 boundaries (in HCFR)..... but how is the measurement really copeing with that +/-4 dE of the Display LT?
Is it really a 2/3 dE curve we are looking at, or is it a 6/7 dE?
We will never know, and we will never be sure how to keep the meter in constant conditions......
Turbe
05-15-2008, 08:08 AM
Wolfy I think the GorGorBey Gamma-HCFR chart is wrong.
The 2 .chc he posted are identical from the gamma & luminance perspective...
About the Display LT we have some fluctuations.... I'd like derek to comment on his "special handling of the meter"....LOL
Now probably someone will state that those fluctations are marginal....but maybe it's time we shall start to think if it's worth it to buy the i1pro..... more constant more precise....factory recalibratable every 18 months......
I think I'm going to copy some of these Posts into a new Thread in the Public Software Forum (perhaps labeled CalMAN vs HCFR Observations (Display LT and i1 Pro).
Turbe
05-15-2008, 08:11 AM
I guess another question would be, with the I1 pro, should you purchase CalMAN (or will ColorHCFR take care of you)?
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 08:25 AM
I guess another question would be, with the I1 pro, should you purchase CalMAN (or will ColorHCFR take care of you)?
I will say...Save your money and use ColorHCFR :).
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 08:27 AM
In the comparaison file (measure two days after in Combined histogram for free measure) you will be able to have continuous measures at 50 IRE and 60 IRE
Just ensure to have Luminance active to know when I changed from 50 to 60...
It was a secret bonus :p
Blutarsky, Did you see the continuous value in the file Measure after 2 days...
Turbe, I just downloaded Beta15 and launched the software (from the office).
I was able to see Tuner A,B,C...
What does it mean ? TV for A, DTV for B
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 08:55 AM
GorGor,I'm interested to see how you will calibrate the TV input
Turbe
05-15-2008, 08:56 AM
Blutarsky, Did you see the continuous value in the file Measure after 2 days...
Turbe, I just downloaded Beta15 and launched the software (from the office).
I was able to see Tuner A,B,C...
What does it mean ? TV for A, DTV for B
LOL, I forgot to add that info to the first 3 Posts of this Thread... I will do so after breakfast... :D
They can be different for each Region (and even more so for the 9G's, including the new Region: Japan)....:confused:
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 08:56 AM
Blutarsky, Did you see the continuous value in the file Measure after 2 days...
Yes, are they at the same IRE level or....? Very interested in the low IRE side....
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 08:59 AM
Yes, are they at the same IRE level or....? Very interested in the low IRE side....
no 50 IRE and 60 IRE...You should be able to see a big increase in the luminance graph...
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 09:02 AM
Of course, shame on me! :o
.... need the low ones also!!!!:cool:
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 09:03 AM
Ah no......... They're all on 60
GorGorBey
05-15-2008, 09:21 AM
You should have both IRE (50 IRE and 60 IRE)
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 09:23 AM
Will check out.....
Wolfy
05-15-2008, 10:19 AM
Moreover we don't know where those fluctuations are really happening.
We know that we can push the dE into the <3 boundaries (in HCFR)..... but how is the measurement really copeing with that +/-4 dE of the Display LT?
Is it really a 2/3 dE curve we are looking at, or is it a 6/7 dE?
We will never know, and we will never be sure how to keep the meter in constant conditions......I guess so, but then that can be said about i1 Pro too. It's a low end sensor compared to the really sensitive ones which runs into the thousands of dollars price range.
You can see that CalMAN seems to reduce dE from measurements compared to HCFR using a Display 2 and i1 Pro even more so using HCFR and perhaps yet even more so using a i1Pro and CalMAN (I'd love to try that combo ;)).
I know that CalMAN has a lot more to offer than HCFR that goes beyond sensor support, but then it should be considering the cost - not unlike Display 2/LT vs i1 Pro. I'll write about my impressions using both in the software section eventually.
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 10:33 AM
I guess so, but then that can be said about i1 Pro too.
UMR, that we all know seems to be a very picky person, is praiseing the i1pro with all kind of devices, and never read a complain about it.
Moreover in some of his posts he seems arguing that he feels more comfortable with the i1pro than his PR-670!!!
Wolfy
05-15-2008, 10:51 AM
UMR, that we all know seems to be a very picking person, is praiseing the i1pro with all kind of devices, and never read a complain about it.
Moreover in some of his posts he seems arguing that he feels more comfortable with the i1pro than his PR-670!!!Really, the posts I read from him seemed to state that nothing except his PR-670 Spectroradiometer would do. :D
I'll have to read up on his posts. Do you have any link(s) where he is doing the prasing, I would be very interested to read more about it.
Turbe
05-15-2008, 11:38 AM
I updated POST #2 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6&postcount=2) with the Input / Tuner Tables.
-Shawn
Blutarsky
05-15-2008, 11:49 AM
Really, the posts I read from him seemed to state that nothing except his PR-670 Spectroradiometer would do. :D
I'll have to read up on his posts. Do you have any link(s) where he is doing the prasing, I would be very interested to read more about it.
