ControlCAL's Pioneer 9G Kuro ISFccc / C3 Display Profile(s) Discussion [Archive]

Turbe

06-18-2008, 10:54 AM

This thread is specifically for discussing ControlCAL's Pioneer 9G ISFccc (C3) Kuro / Elite Display Profile(s). There are two Display Profile Sets available (Regions1 and Regions2).

ISFccc Software / ISF Software

Display Regions Supported: All Regions.
Current Regions1 Profile Version: v0.4 (Requires ControlCAL v1.45).
Current Regions2 Profile Version: v0.2 (Requires ControlCAL v1.45).

IMPORTANT:
BEFORE USING THESE PROFILES, PLEASE READ BOTH POST #2 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1435&postcount=2) AND POST #3 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1436&postcount=3) (below) for Instructions and Control Descriptions (Documentation is attached to Post #2).

NOTE:
This is a Premium Display Profile and requires a Registered (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html), Professional (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html) or Professional Plus (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html) Activation Key.

Additional Information that applies to the 9G Displays with the ISFccc Interface is available in the 8G ISFccc Display Profile Thread (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63).

-----> NEW CONTROLCAL USER? SEE: Step-by-Step: Activating the ISFccc Memories and Entering Posted Settings (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16).

Pioneer 9G Display Profiles for ControlCAL v1.41 RC4 Build 23+ (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1):

REGIONS1 (Models for North America, Europe [HD Only]) - ISF Day, ISF Night, ISF Auto:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2woewqb.jpg
Download ControlCAL - 9G Pioneer C3 Display Profiles Regions1 v0.4.zip (http://host-a.net/turbe/ControlCAL%20-%209G%20Pioneer%20C3%20Display%20Profiles%20Region s1%20v0.4.zip)North American Region: PRO-111FD, PRO-151FD
European (including UK) Region: PDP-LX5090H, PDP-LX6090H, KRP-500A, KRP-600A
Australian Region: PDP-LX509A, PDP-LX609A, PDP-C509A
REGIONS2 (Models for Europe [No DTV Tuner], General/China, Australia and Japan Only) - ISF Day, ISF Night:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2woewqb.jpg
Download ControlCAL - 9G Pioneer C3 Display Profiles Regions2 v0.2.zip (http://host-a.net/turbe/ControlCAL%20-%209G%20Pioneer%20C3%20Display%20Profiles%20Region s2%20v0.2.zip)European (including UK) Region: PDP-LX5090, PDP-LX6090
Australian Region: Model information coming soon
Chinese Region: KRP-500A, more model information coming soon
Japanese Region: Model information coming soon

PROFILE: Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-3_P1
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/ControlCAL/ControlCAL/Pioneer9G-1.png

PROFILE: Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-3_P2
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/ControlCAL/ControlCAL/Pioneer9G-2.png

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/ControlCAL/ControlCAL/Pioneer9G-3.png

ISF and ISFccc (Imaging Science Foundation Certified Calibration Controls) are trademarks of Imaging Science Foundation.

Turbe

06-18-2008, 10:54 AM

9G PIONEER ISF C3 PROFILE CALIBRATION PROCEDURE FLOW

Start ControlCAL
Configure COM Port Settings [MENU/SETTINGS/PORT SETTINGS]

Pioneer Displays Default to: 9600 Baud, 8 Data Bits, NO Parity and 1 Stop Bits, NO Flow Control.

If you need to verify/change you Display's Serial Port Settings:

First make sure your TV is in Stand-By mode. .
Continuously hold down the "Home Menu" key and press the "Power" key within 3 seconds (release "Home Menu" after pressing "Power" key). After the Pioneer power's on you should see a menu with COM settings.
Use your "Left" and "Right" arrows to scroll through and locate 9600-232C or the wanted baud rate .
Once selected press the "Power" key to power off the set or the Home Menu Key to exit.

NOTE: Suggested Port Speed: 9600 baud (default).KRP-500A / KRP-600A NOTE: Use the Serial Port / Service Port on the External Media Box.

IMPORTANT: The Pioneer ISFccc Interface will timeout and return to Normal Operating Mode (auto END CALIBRATION) after 8 minutes of inactivity/not receiving any commands via the serial port. This is normal and part of the Display's safety mechanisms. WORK-AROUND/TIP - Change a Control Setting, simply Press the small SEND Button next to a Control to resend the current value and/or REFRESH every few minutes. The 8 minute setting cannot be changed in the Display or disabled.

PIONEER ISF C3 PROCEDURE FLOW/INSTRUCTIONS
UPDATED: 07/22/2008
Load Profile Part #1 (or Part #2).

From Display Standby...

_1) Press POWER ON Button.
_2) Press the START CALIBRATION Button - Received ISF Level Not Supported Dialog? See below.

_3) Select INPUT and Press SET.

_4) Press ISF DAY MODE (or ISF NIGHT MODE, ISF AUTO MODE**) Button.
_5) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
_6) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display*).
[OPTIONAL - STEPS #7-#9]
_7) Load Part #2 Profile (or Part #1 if #2 is loaded).
_8) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
_9) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display*).
10) Press SAVE.

11) Press ISF NIGHT MODE (or ISF DAY MODE, ISF AUTO MODE**) Button.
12) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
13) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display*).
[OPTIONAL - STEPS #14-#16]
14) Load Part #1 Profile (or Part #2 if #1 is loaded).
15) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
16) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display*).
17) Press SAVE.

Repeat Steps 3-17 above for any other INPUTS you want to calibrate.

18) Press the END CALIBRATION Button NOTE: IT CAN TAKE UP TO ONE MINUTE FOR THIS STEP TO COMPLETE!!!!!!!.
19) Press POWER OFF Button.

* If Auto Send is Disabled.
** ISF AUTO MODE is not available in some Models, see Post #1 above for more information.

'RESET CURRENT' BUTTON INFORMATION
This will allow you to Reset the Settings for an INPUT'S Current Mode (DAY or NIGHT) to their Defaults and Reset the Calibration Flag to 0 (like the Mode was never Calibrated).

You can only use this Button once you have Entered Calibration Mode, Selected an Input and Selected DAY MODE or NIGHT MODE.

For example, you want to Reset all the settings for INPUT 1, both DAY and NIGHT MODES.

After Pressing the START CALIBRATION Button:

1) SELECT INPUT 1 and Press SET

2) Press the ISF DAY MODE Button, Press the RESET CURRENT Button.
3) Press the ISF NIGHT MODE Button, Press the RESET CURRENT Button.

Press the END CALIBRATION Button to exit Calibration. NOTE: IT CAN TAKE UP TO ONE MINUTE FOR THIS STEP TO COMPLETE!!!!!!!

Each Input has two Modes... if you wanted to Reset ALL, you would have to repeats STEPS 1 to 3 (of course selecting a different Input).

TIPS AND SUGGESTED OPTIONS
Enable Auto Send (disabled by default) and Disable (uncheck) Error Dialogs (found under Settings in the Menu). When using Auto Send, there should be no reason to use the SEND ALL Button. If an Pioneer Error Code is received, you will still see this in the Terminal Window.

It may be a good idea to Print the Tables.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1436&postcount=3

Two other important bits of information are:1) concerning the Gamma Controls, each time you change a Gamma Point, you want to Press one of the two Small REFRESH Buttons near the Gamma Controls (Sliders). The Large REFRESH Button in the Main Window will Refresh all Controls including Gamma, the two Smaller REFRESH Buttons only Refresh Gamma.

2) when loading the other Profile (i.e. P2 from P1) and you have already entered Calibration Mode, you do not have to Press the START CALIBRATION Button again. ControlCAL does remember the Input you selected (no need to re-send that) and which Memory you are working on (ISF Day/ISF Night).
Most start with the P2 Profile, make those adjustments and spend the rest only working with P1 (you can refer to P1/P2 as Part #1, Part #2, Page #1, Page #2 or use any term you see fit).

Please see these two Posts (they apply to the 9G's):

Procedure Flow:
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1435&postcount=2

ControlCAL.ini settings (speed up REFRESH, auto load one of the Pioneer Profiles on Startup, etc.):
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1437&postcount=4
I wouldn't change the AutoSend_Timing Setting, but the other two you would most likely find useful (many use a Value of 200 for Forced_Wait_For for the Pioneer Profiles).

RECEIVED THIS ERROR DIALOG?

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4&d=1208054905

If you get the "Display's ISF Level is not Compatible with this Profile" Dialog when you Press the CALIBRATION MODE Button, try again. Sometimes it is best to Select ControlCAL's Terminal Window and Press F12 (which sends a CR Only) after you first start ControlCAL, Load your first Profile and BEFORE you press any buttons, this can prep the Display for communications. If you continue to get this Dialog, verify that your Display is an 9th Generation Model.

RECEIVED THIS WARNING DIALOG?

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5&d=1208054913

This Warning Dialog does not indicate an Error with ControlCAL but does indicate that 1 of 2 Error Codes (as configured in the Display Profile) has been received from the Display. This could be due to communication errors, invalid values for the current mode etc.
i.e. Trying to send a value from the RGB-HIGHs (DRIVE) or RGB-LOWs (CUTOFF) Controls without first setting COLOR TEMP to 6 (Manual).

.

Turbe

06-18-2008, 10:54 AM

PIONEER ISF C3 PROFILE CONTROL VALUE DESCRIPTIONS

UPDATED: JULY 21, 2008

PURE CINEMA
0 - Off
1 - Standard
2 - Advance
3 - Smooth

COLOR TEMP (This Control is also available in Part/Page #1 and #2)
0 -
1 - Low
2 - Mid-Low
3 - Mid
4 - Mid-High
5 - High
6 - Manual <--- REQUIRED FOR SETTING RGB-HIGH (DRIVE) AND RGB-LOW (CUTOFF) CONTROLS

COLOR SPACE
0 -
1 - 1
2 - 2

BLACK LEVEL
0 - Off
1 - On

ACL
0 - Off
1 - On

3DYC
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

I-P MODE
0 -
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3

TEXT OPTIMISATION
0 - Off
1 - On

INTELLIGENT MODE
0 - Off
1 - On

DRE PICTURE
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

ENHANCER MODE
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3

BLOCK NR
0 - Off
1 - On

3DNR
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

FIELD NR
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

MOSQUITO NR
0 - Off
1 - On

ZOOM
0 - Dot by Dot (FHD Only)
1 - 4:3
2 - Full
3 - Zoom
4 - Cinema
5 - Wide or Wide1
6 - Full 14:9 (All Models except in North America and Japan)
7 - Cinema 14:9 (All Models except in North America and Japan)
8 - Full 2 (Models in Japan Only)
9 - NOT USED
10 - NOT USED
11 - Auto*
12 - Wide 2 (Europe SD Models with Digital Inputs Only - Regions2)

* Auto is effective only when "SIDE MASK DETECTION" is not "OFF" and "AUTO SIDE" is not "OFF" and HD signal is incoming. Screen size is changed to Auto, if this command is entered. (From Pioneer ISFccc Documentation).

INPUT / TUNER TABLE

9th Generation (9G):

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll281/ControlCAL/ControlCAL/9GInputTable.jpg

.

Turbe

06-18-2008, 10:55 AM

ControlCAL.ini Setting Descriptions

Default Settings (Note: ControlCAL will default most values if the ControlCAL.ini file is missing or improper values are entered):

[Profile]
Forced_Wait_For=-1
Startup_Load="C:\YourProfile.cdp"

[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=15

[PioneerC3]
Line1="calibrated 3/12/2008"
Line2="by your custom name"
Line3="your custom text"
Forced_Wait_For=[-1, 0-2000]
If this is Set between 0ms to 2000ms, ControlCAL will always use this value for the Wait_For Communication Setting instead of the one entered and saved with the Display Profile (helpful if the Display Profile is Locked). This is the time (in ms) between commands sent to the Display. Set to -1 to use the Wait_For value entered and saved with the Display Profile.

Startup_Load=Path/Display Profile
If you want to load a specific Display Profile each time ControlCAL is started, enter the Display Profile's Full Path and File Name within quotes.

AutoSend_Timing=[1-60]
How long the AutoSend Window is open/closed for sending commands when Auto Send is enabled (in ms). The Default [15] will allow commands to be sent approximately once per second. Use a smaller number to allow more steps to be sent per second, larger for less steps. Setting this to 60 would allow commands to be sent approximately once every two seconds.

[PioneerC3]
Line1=
Line2=
Line3=
Requires a Professional Plus Activation Key (http://www.controlcal.com/donate.html). The Line1-3 Options allows you to customize the first 3 lines of the text string saved to a Pioneer Display during ISFccc Calibration. Each line can be a maximum of 24 characters. The 4th Line will be saved as " www.ControlCAL.com (http://www.controlcal.com/) " (though you may Contact Us (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/sendmessage.php) for options to remove this branding). Enclose your text within Quotes and use Spaces to center each line as needed. Valid ASCII Character Codes: Decimal 32 to Decimal 126 (HEX: 20 to 7E) - i.e. abcd ABCD !"#$ {|}~.

More information concerning these Settings can be found HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1050&postcount=87).
Wolfy tested various Settings and reporting his results HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1066&postcount=103).

NOTE:
Make sure ControlCAL.ini is in the same directory as ControlCAL's .EXE.
If you make any changes while ControlCAL is running, you need to restart ControlCAL.
.

Turbe

06-21-2008, 02:46 PM

The 9G Display Profiles are Now Available (Models for North America, Europe [HD Only] and Australia Only / REGIONS 1)...

I will be updating the instructions and Input Tables for the 9G's soon.

Pioneer has introduced more variables for entering the ISFccc Modes in the 9G's... if you experience any problems entering this Mode with your Display, please post in this Thread.

Please do Post if your Calibration is successful as well.

.

igor74

06-22-2008, 08:01 AM

I'd like to get the 9G profile for the PRO-151FD.

Thanks.

Turbe

07-01-2008, 10:07 PM

The Display Profiles for the remaining 9G Regions/Models are now available (Regions2).

If you have a LX5090 or LX6090 (European Region including UK) you may want to test these Profiles as the Regions1 Profiles will not work. The Regions2 Display Profiles are for the Models that only have the ISF Day and ISF Night Memories (no ISF Auto).

-Shawn

Chris Nicholl

07-02-2008, 02:19 AM

Turbe

07-02-2008, 08:58 AM

Morning Shawn,

Did a very quick test with our LX5090 and the page 1 profiles worked.
I will have more time to test these and the page 2 profiles tomorrow when I'm back in the office.

I've sent you a PM with more details.

Cheers,

Chris

Great News to wake up to Chris, Thank You for testing the new Regions2 Profile Set so quickly. I look forward to your feedback after you spend more time calibrating a LX5090 (and LX6090 soon I believe you wrote??)....

-Shawn

Chris Nicholl

07-03-2008, 02:22 AM

Hi Shawn,

I've now had a chance to check every command with our demo LX5090. All is ok bar a few small problems...

1. Grouped within the picture detail section in the Pioneer menu (DRE pic, black level, ACL & enhancer mode) there is a preset gamma option with a setting of 1,2 or 3 which is missing from the controlCAL settings. Is there any way this can be added?

2. Doing a "send all" command then "save settings" on the page 2 profile does not save the settings (polling the screen resets everything). I am guessing this is due to the Y-Delay giving an error as it cannot be applied to the signal my pattern generator is outputting?

3. Zoom is doing a couple of odd things - Set to 0 for dot dy dot then save. Poll the screen and it comes back set to 11, try to send an 11 code and you get an error. The screen is definitley being set to dot by dot, it seems to be the polling that is the problem.

Cheers,

Chris

Turbe

07-03-2008, 07:53 AM

Chris,

#1 is easy and was/is a common question for the 8G's.. in the ISFccc Mode, the 9-Point Gamma Controls replaces the Preset Gamma Option. There is no Serial Code to access/set the Preset Gamma Option while in ISFccc. I will double check the 9G documentation though. Remember, each time you change a Gamma Point you need to Press the one of the two REFRESH Buttons near the Gamma Controls (Profile Extras Window).

#2 Have you tried the Save Command a second time after the first (SEND ALL, SAVE, SAVE)? Is ControlCAL set to Auto Send? Also, does this happen to Profile P1? I have had suggestions to make available a P2 Profile without the Y-Delay Control or have an option for the User to disable specific Controls. I don't think anyone Posted an issue before regarding this (8G or 9G Profiles), I need to investigate this further. I am assuming if you don't use SEND ALL and have Auto Send Enabled, using the SAVE Button works?

#3 There are new options for the 9G Zoom Control (over the 8G). I need to update this Thread with the valid 9G Tables. The Zoom (Screen Size) Control's Value range has increased to 12 (from 7), but a few Values are skipped/unused and others only work in specific modes. I will get the Translation Tables Posted ASAP.

On another topic, the Pioneer Profiles for ControlCAL were created to start Calibration with the Display Powered Off/in Standby Mode and using the POWER ON Button in the Profile(s). If this is followed, you shouldn't receive the ISF Level Error Dialog... Let me know if you still do sometimes.

Thanks for timely feedback, I appreciate it.... :D

-Turbe

Turbe

07-03-2008, 07:58 AM

I'd be curious on the Calibration Flow Procedure you are doing with the LX5090, when you get time, can you Post your preferred Flow?

HDCraig

07-09-2008, 12:18 PM

Sean were you still going to add the import/export control value settings option so we can easily save calibration sessions settings and load them at a later time and also the auto refresh option (on profile load and input change)?

Turbe

07-10-2008, 09:45 AM

Chris Nicholl

07-10-2008, 09:52 AM

Chris Nicholl

07-10-2008, 10:31 AM

Hi Shawn,

I've tried various things over the last week regarding workflow and Wolfy's 9 part workflow on the 8g thread is the way to go...

I use the following workflow:
1. Set black level and then white level using brightness and contrast.
2. Set gamut (primary colors) using Color Management.
3. Set gamma, i.e. a flat gamma tracking using 9 point gamma adjustment.
4. Set grayscale using RGB Highs and Lows.
5. Check and Set secondary colors if necessary using Color Management.
6. Check gamut again, adjust if necessary.
7. Set color decoder using Color and Tint (NTSC).
8. Start from 3 again, when OK advance to 9.
9. Check everything from 1, if OK, calibration is done.

...although I found it easier doing the RGB high/lows first and then doing the gamma controls.

I've tried a couple of 50" screens so far and found the primary colours to be fairly spot on when colour space 2 is used although the secondary colours are a bit off but can be adjusted to be quite accurate.

I need to do another run on our 50" as on my first run adjusting the scondary colours had an odd effect on the greyscale:confused:

Chris

Blutarsky

07-10-2008, 12:18 PM

Boonjik

07-10-2008, 02:52 PM

Hi Shawn,

Can I have profiles to test on my coming soon PDP-LX5090H.

Thanks

Chris Nicholl

07-11-2008, 01:36 AM

Hi there everyone, It's a long time have not posted here (thanks Shawn for bringing my attention to Chris' post), almost abandoned calibrating (at the moment!).

Just one question on Chris sequence:

why do you iterate back to n° 3 and not to n°2 ??
I ask so, because usually, once you alter the RGB curves, primaries and secondaries change theyr respective locations, so you need to tweak them again....

Hi,

I can't take any credit for the workflow,that is Wolfy's from the 8g thread. :o

Point 6 recommends to re-check the gamut anyway so there's not much point going back to 2 and I always do a full run from the start when I think I'm happy with everything to make sure nothing odd is happening.

You've had a lot of experience with the 8g screens, what workflow do you use?

Cheers,

Chris

Wolfy

07-12-2008, 07:41 AM

...I need to do another run on our 50" as on my first run adjusting the scondary colours had an odd effect on the greyscale:confused:

ChrisCheers for verifying this against a G9. I was hoping that the quirks from the G8 Colour Management would have been less with G9 though.

Unfortunately the Colour Management in the Pioneer is far from complete and gives unpredictable results in my experience. IMHO the Colour Management is best left alone and if used one should be very conservative with the adjustments since like you mention you are likely to mess up the greyscale.

Fortunately the primary colours are very close to Rec. 709 colours when using Colour Space 2.

Do you mean that the secondaries are off before you do the greyscale adjustment and close to standard after greyscale adjustment? If so, then that is as it should be since the greyscale if off from D65 before adjusting it and thus secondaries will be off.

I'll be too busy until late August or September to continue my testing to see if my new i1 Pro will yield a different experience with my G8, but it's always interesting to read about other's experiences.

Chris Nicholl

07-17-2008, 05:15 AM

Do you mean that the secondaries are off before you do the greyscale adjustment and close to standard after greyscale adjustment? If so, then that is as it should be since the greyscale if off from D65 before adjusting it and thus secondaries will be off.

That is exactly what I meant although I discovered it by doing things the other way round. Greyscale was good - adjusted secondaries - greyscale wasn't good. :rolleyes:

In my experience the colour management in these and the 8g screens does what I'd expect - move the green slider control one way the green point on the gamut moves towards blue, move it the other way the point moves towards red etc.
Obviously a saturation as well as a hue/tint control is needed to fully manage the gamut but as you point out colour space 2 isn't particulary saturated in comparison to REC 709 primaries although the secondaries are a bit off.
If the you can adjust the primary and secondary points to be accurate and have good greyscale controls, how come they interact with each other in such an odd way?

Chris

Wolfy

07-20-2008, 04:04 AM

I honestly don't why these quirks exists, other than perhaps Pioneer included these controls just so that it would look good on paper(?).

Lets just say that the Pioneer implementation of Colour Management is not an ideal one.

I had high hopes for G9, now I will hope that will G10 we will have a proper CMS, i.e. Saturation, Hue and Lightness for each individual colour.

Gordon, Convergent AV

07-20-2008, 09:47 AM

The adjustment of secondaries causing greyscale errors is a known and common phenomenon of Pioneers CMS (it happens with Fujitsu as well...put up a grey ramp, turn off colour and make some adjustments to the CMS and see what happens). It is essentially, crappy and as Wolfy says, best avoided. I always try to do as little adjustment of the Pioneer CMS as is physically possible.

Also as Wolfy says its not just Saturation control that is required to go along with the badly implimented tint control they already have. You need a LIGHTNESS control as well. Just getting x,y correct isn't enough....you also need to fix z.......

Gordon

michael tlv

07-20-2008, 06:00 PM

Greetings

A proper CMS system has 18 controls ... 6 for tint ... 6 for saturation ... 6 for brightness. Pioneer CMS gives you 6 of 18 ... which can lead to trouble.

Generally left alone by most calibrators because it takes too too long to figure out which adjustments are actually beneficial versus doing harm.

One might be able to improve things by a few clicks here and there, but not worth the effort on a professional level unless the calibrator has a lot of time to kill.

regards

Turbe

07-21-2008, 08:00 AM

Hello,

From my recent conversations with Steve at the AVForums, it is clear that most of the issues he is having is because of my lack of updated documentation in the 9G Thread (though I did ask that everyone read through the first few posts in the 8G Threads in the email with the Activation Key). :D

I thought it would be beneficial to to post some important information and tips.

I would Enable Auto Send (disabled by default) and Disable (uncheck) Error Dialogs (found under Settings in the Menu). When using Auto Send, there should be no reason to use the SEND ALL Button. If an Pioneer Error Code is received, you will still see this in the Terminal Window.

It may be a good idea to Print the Tables.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1436&postcount=3

Two other important bits of information are:
1) concerning the Gamma Controls. Each time you change a Gamma Point, you want to Press one of the two Small REFRESH Buttons near the Gamma Controls (Sliders). The Large REFRESH Button in the Main Window will Refresh all Controls including Gamma, the two Smaller REFRESH Buttons only Refresh Gamma.

2) when loading the other Profile (i.e. P2 from P1) and you have already entered Calibration Mode, you do not have to Press the START CALIBRATION Button again. ControlCAL does remember the Input you selected (no need to re-send that) and which Memory you are working on (ISF Day/ISF Night).
Most start with the P2 Profile, make those adjustments and spend the rest only working with P1 (you can refer to P1/P2 as Part #1, Part #2, Page #1, Page #2 or use any term you see fit).

Please see these two Posts (they apply to the 9G's):

Procedure Flow:
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1435&postcount=2

ControlCAL.ini settings (speed up REFRESH, auto load one of the Pioneer Profiles on Startup, etc.):
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1437&postcount=4
I wouldn't change the AutoSend_Timing Setting, but the other two you would most likely find useful (many use a Value of 200 for Forced_Wait_For for the Pioneer Profiles).

I'll get the 9G tables and documentation updated in this 9G Thread soon. <--- Translation Tables Completed

-Shawn

Turbe

07-21-2008, 09:45 AM

Daniel

07-22-2008, 10:16 AM

Hi
Thanks for the profiles!

I'm just trying to find a RS232 cable, on the other hand we have a few usb>serial adapters at work, I could give them a try meanwhile.

I'm curious about the ISF Auto mode, does it work by sensing the amount of light around the TV and then deciding if it's "day" or "night" ?

Blutarsky

07-23-2008, 12:04 PM

Generally left alone by most calibrators because it takes too too long to figure out which adjustments are actually beneficial versus doing harm.

"Generally"

I'm curios if someone di actually got some real benefits from touching those controls.... or as Michael states it's only a matter of unpereceivable "clicks".

Are you professionals using the ISF inputs on Piooners sets or not? Yes, users cannot modify anithing so maybe you sacrifice those G9 little improvements to give users the opportunity to tweak?

michael tlv

07-24-2008, 08:57 AM

Greetings

Let's say you want to do it right and push the performance ... making the most out of what Pioneer gives you. You make a few changes in the CMS on one color ... then you have to go back to look at the grayscale and retweak it. Then a few more clicks ... then back to grayscale ... then a few more clicks ... then back to grayscale ... but!!!!!

Now you find out that you can't fix the grayscale at all this time no matter what you do. So it's reset time back to the previous position and set the one cms parameter back to the previous step. Now go onto the next color ...

There could be 30 to 60 grayscale iterations here trying to tweak out that last few % of performance. And your eyes might not even see the differences on live images.

A 3 hour calibration session has ballooned to 10+ hours ... and suddenly the $350 you are paying your calibrator is not such a great deal for him.

Mind you ... you don't need access to the C3 to do this though. Perfectly achievable in the user menu. All the stuff is there to play with.

Do I as a pro calibrator use the C3 ... yes and no. On Previous generations before G8 ... yes ...

On the G8 ... so far no ... because of the interface fiasco. Although that looks to be solved now. I was doing it all in the user menu for the clients. The results are the same ... and in some ways ... offers the client more flexibility as a result. I am returning to a number of my G8 clients to do it via the C3 interface now because they want it. Those special ISF letters on the screen.

Will they see a difference in performance after it gets done in the C3 ... not at all.

Now we are at the G9 ... and there is more uncertainty again.

regards

the_snip3r

07-26-2008, 05:53 PM

Great work Turbe! I’ll test them on my 9g soon. :)

JavierS

07-29-2008, 02:24 AM

Hi all,

I'd like the profiles to test them on my LX5090H.

Cheers

johannesk

07-29-2008, 02:44 AM

Hi

Could I have the 9G profiles for ControlCAL?

Huge thanks! :D

-Johannes

Ps, Greets from Finland!

Turbe

08-07-2008, 04:38 PM

Most of the information and tips in the 8G ISFccc Thread will apply to the 9G's. Please use the following link:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63

.

D-Nice

08-07-2008, 06:35 PM

Greetings everyone,

Here are some charts for my ISF-Day settings. The charts look pretty good. However, I dislike the color contamination i can see in a grayscale ramp. Am I missing something here? Did I do something wrong??? My flow chart is as follows:

Set peak luminance (Contrast)
Set black level (Brightness)
Correct grayscale (RGB High/Low)
Correct color points (CMS controls)
Fix gamma and grayscale (9 point gamma controls)
Tweak grayscale (RGB High/Low)
Check color points and adjust accordingly (CMS controls)
Verify everything again
Set color saturation (Color)

Luminance
http://i33.tinypic.com/2afmt0y.jpg

RGB Luminance
http://i33.tinypic.com/2hmjzvt.jpg

Gamma
http://i33.tinypic.com/dqofsx.jpg

RGB Gamma
http://i33.tinypic.com/npfj46.jpg

RGB Levels
http://i35.tinypic.com/n5jlv.jpg

Grayscale
http://i37.tinypic.com/1z4wf2h.jpg

Wolfy

08-08-2008, 09:10 AM

Greetings everyoneHi D-Nice and welcome to these forums. :)

My flow chart is as follows:

Set peak luminance (Contrast)
Set black level (Brightness)
Correct grayscale (RGB High/Low)
Correct color points (CMS controls)
Fix gamma and grayscale (9 point gamma controls)
Tweak grayscale (RGB High/Low)
Check color points and adjust accordingly (CMS controls)
Verify everything again
Set color saturation (Color)Points 3 & 4 should be interchanged. Since grayscale is the proper mix of primaries the primaries should be as close as possible before adjusting grayscale (just like you set black level and white level before looking at anything else) and the secondaries should fall in place after adjusting grayscale.

I have only experience with 8G Pioneers and EU models at that. I have found that if I use Pioneer's Color Management to get the primaries as close as possible I have a hard time getting a good grayscale/gamma tracking after that.

Fortunately using the Color Space 2 setting, the primaries are close enough to the standard CIE x, y and its then fairly easy to get an excellent and neutral grayscale tracking across the board. So, I leave the Color Management controls alone. Thus my workflow for EU 8G is as follows:

Adjust Black Level
Adjust White Level
Adjust Grayscale with RGB High/Low
Fine-tune Gamma with 9-point controls (usually only to give it a boost at 10%, but depends on source fidelity)
Adjust Color Decoder (Color, Tint/Hue controls)
Check Colors and if needed use CM very conservatively
Start from 3 again, if OK proceed
Start from 1 again, if OK then you are finished
With your connections I hope that you can get the word to Pioneer so that with 10G we'll have a proper CMS implementation (i.e. brightness, saturation and tint/hue adjustments for each primary and secondary color) from Pioneer. ;)

D-Nice

08-08-2008, 09:44 AM

Thanks Wolfy,

I actually figured out the correct work flow last night. Its pretty much what you recommended:

Set peak luminance (Contrast)
Set black level (Brightness)
Correct grayscale (RGB High/Low)
Fix gamma (9 point gamma controls.....green first followed by red then blue)
Correct color points (CMS controls)
Tweak grayscale (RGB High/Low)
Verify grayscale, gamma, and color points again
Set color saturation (Color)

Here are the final results:

Luminance
http://i34.tinypic.com/9tft6u.jpg

RGB Luminance
http://i38.tinypic.com/1z5itch.jpg

Gamma
http://i34.tinypic.com/2vx4ltx.jpg

RGB Gamma
http://i34.tinypic.com/28bfkmv.jpg

RGB Levels
http://i38.tinypic.com/11l5rpx.jpg

Grayscale
http://i38.tinypic.com/5l6k8x.jpg

Blutarsky

08-08-2008, 03:44 PM

Great to see D-Nice and Mike TLV sharing theyr experiences here!
Some questions to D-Nice:
- did you use your good'ol PR-655 or ??
- what reference did you aim for? REC709?
- To what extent did you "touch"color control?
- can you publish the CIE chart results?
- how many times did you loop in the calibration cycle?

thanks

D-Nice

08-08-2008, 04:28 PM

Great to see D-Nice and Mike TLV sharing theyr experiences here!
Some questions to D-Nice:
- did you use your good'ol PR-655 or ??Nope. i1pro for these cals.

- what reference did you aim for? REC709?Rec709

- To what extent did you "touch"color control?My color is set to 1

- can you publish the CIE chart results?Sure:

http://i36.tinypic.com/15ox8c2.jpg

- how many times did you loop in the calibration cycle?

thanksDon't remember. This was a 4 hour session to calibrate ISF Day and Night modes.

Blutarsky

08-12-2008, 02:35 PM

My color is set to 1

Do you mean colorspace=1? If so can you comment on such a choice?

Besides, from that, how much did you tweak the colorpoints to avoid grayscale nonlinearity?

D-Nice

08-12-2008, 02:41 PM

Do you mean colorspace=1? No, the actual color setting. I always use colorspace 2 on the Elites.
Besides, from that, how much did you tweak the colorpoints to avoid grayscale nonlinearity?Great question :) I sacrificed a perfect green color point to keep the lower end of the grayscale linear. On ISF Day mode, I only had to tweak the Blue and Magenta CMS controls. Using ISF Night with a lower contrast setting, I used the Yellow, Cyan, Blue, and Magenta CMS controls. None were moved beyond 2 clicks.

Blutarsky

08-14-2008, 05:03 AM

M.V.A. !!!! (Most Valuable Answers)

Thanks D-Nice, I beleive everyone will benefit from your great experience with these sets.

More questions here:

- About colorpoints: what strategy did you follow? Those few clicks have been applied accordingly to flatten the grayscale or did you adjust trying to get closer to CIE reference, without spoiling too much the grayscale?

- Why did you use the I1pro? Was it a "didactical" choice, just because here no one owns a PR meter?

- If using the I1pro on these sets, what are the advices you would give using such a meter, like particular weaknesses or limits?

- Did you keep the meter plugged on the screen for the whole calibration sessions or did you unplug the meter between measurements sessions?

- Did you try a day-after measurements to see if the values changed?

- Do you think a calibration performed with a I1pro shows eye-perceivable differences in respect to a calibration done with a Display LT?

Thanks again for your precious advices

D-Nice

08-14-2008, 11:33 AM

- About colorpoints: what strategy did you follow? Those few clicks have been applied accordingly to flatten the grayscale or did you adjust trying to get closer to CIE reference, without spoiling too much the grayscale?Both. Due to Pioneer's CMS implementation, one has to pick which and how of each control they use. For instance, I could have gotten the green color right at reference numbers. However, it would cause severe grayscale problems on the lower end which cannot be corrected.

- Why did you use the I1pro? Was it a "didactical" choice, just because here no one owns a PR meter?Yep. I'm all for DIY calibration. How many DIY'er do you know that would pay for such a device....only to calibrate their display.

- If using the I1pro on these sets, what are the advices you would give using such a meter, like particular weaknesses or limits?Patience :) It can be slow and needs a black level re-cal every 10 minutes or so. It is the best for DIY plasma calibration....followed closely by the Chroma5 ;)

- Did you keep the meter plugged on the screen for the whole calibration sessions or did you unplug the meter between measurements sessions?Plugged on the screen? I had to take it down for each black reading re-cal.

- Did you try a day-after measurements to see if the values changed?Yes. The drifts were negligible.

- Do you think a calibration performed with a I1pro shows eye-perceivable differences in respect to a calibration done with a Display LT?That depends. If you can tame the LT to not flux so much between readings (it can be done....just a PITA to do), and actually have an accurate LT, the visual difference is very, very slight. Your better off getting a Chroma 5 with CalMan. 389US is a steal ;)

Turbe

08-14-2008, 11:46 AM

It is the best for DIY plasma calibration....followed closely by the Chroma5 ;)

If you can tame the LT ..... Your better off getting a Chroma 5 with CalMan. 389US is a steal ;)

:eek:

This is great, exactly what we needed.. someone who has the C5 and the I1 Pro and has done/will do a comparison... :)

I know you are slammed right now, are you going to report/post a comparison with the two in the future (when used on the Pioneers)?

Blutarsky

08-14-2008, 01:43 PM

Fantastic D-Nice, a few posts and you've filled in the holes we were all looking for!

Another question: there have been a lot of discussions about the correct interpretation of low IRE/% patterns measurements... some people state you can't trust your instrument at 10%.... you should follow what your eyes actually see... what is your opinion about this point, particullarly using the I1pro? What strategy do you apply?

Curiosity: apart from the cost, what gain, in the calibration experience, can you witness when switching from I1Pro to a PR meter? Is there really such a big difference in a set calibrated with the I1pro and a PR?

Thanks again for helping

P.S. - It would be great if you could write down a sort of primer on semi-advanced calibration of these sets... there are many valuable general-purpose (projector, LCD, plasmas) guides for dummies out there but all of them are missing practical advices, like suggested meters for the Kuros, how to warm up correctly the meter, how to recal correctly, what typical errors to avoid, what patterns to use and why, if it does any sense to aim for references other than REC709.... and so on.
A sort of "Plasma Calibration Bible" ....

I can see a fast rise of Calibration Forums with you as a contributing editor...;)

Turbe

08-14-2008, 01:46 PM

p.s. - it would be great if you could write down a sort of primer on semi-advanced calibration of these sets... There are many valuable general-purpose (projector, lcd, plasmas) guides for dummies out there but all of them are missing practical advices, like suggested meters for the kuros, how to warm up correctly the meter, how to recal correctly, what typical errors to avoid, what patterns to use and why, if it does any sense to aim for references other than rec709.... And so on.
A sort of "plasma calibration bible" .....

^^^^ +1 ;)

D-Nice

08-14-2008, 02:10 PM

:eek:

This is great, exactly what we needed.. someone who has the C5 and the I1 Pro and has done/will do a comparison... :)

I know you are slammed right now, are you going to report/post a comparison with the two in the future (when used on the Pioneers)?Can it wait untl next month? After I post this review and the 9G NE items, I would like to take a vacation for the remainder of this month :) Also I will have a 65PZ850u in house for review and calibration. I think what the LT and Chroma 5 can do on a Panasonic would also be beneficial.

D-Nice

08-14-2008, 02:21 PM

Another question: there have been a lot of discussions about the correct interpretation of low IRE/% patterns measurements... some people state you can't trust your instrument at 10%.... you should follow what your eyes actually see... what is your opinion about this point, particullarly using the I1pro? What strategy do you apply?Use both your eyes and equipment. I personally can visually detect spikes in the individual color channels @ 10IRE. With all other panels out there, 10IRE will look reddish or bluish. It is neutral gray on the 111FD I have....just like my measurements say.

Curiosity: apart from the cost, what gain, in the calibration experience, can you witness when switching from I1Pro to a PR meter? Is there really such a big difference in a set calibrated with the I1pro and a PR?Speaking strickly on the Pioneers....no visual difference. Of course there are number differences....but again an experienced calibrator (DIY or certified) should never just look at the numbers ;)

P.S. - It would be great if you could write down a sort of primer on semi-advanced calibration of these sets... there are many valuable general-purpose (projector, LCD, plasmas) guides for dummies out there but all of them are missing practical advices, like suggested meters for the Kuros, how to warm up correctly the meter, how to recal correctly, what typical errors to avoid, what patterns to use and why, if it does any sense to aim for references other than REC709.... and so on.
A sort of "Plasma Calibration Bible" ....

I can see a fast rise of Calibration Forums with you as a contributing editor...;)Already a future project :) However it doesn't currently have a completion date.

Turbe

08-14-2008, 03:36 PM

Can it wait untl next month? After I post this review and the 9G NE items, I would like to take a vacation for the remainder of this month :) Also I will have a 65PZ850u in house for review and calibration. I think what the LT and Chroma 5 can do on a Panasonic would also be beneficial.

LOL of course... :D (but not Calibration Forum Paid Vacation, right... :cool:)

samkk0891

08-17-2008, 11:09 AM

LOL of course... :D (but not Calibration Forum Paid Vacation, right... :cool:)

Thanks for the reply...I have no problem in supporting this,but I need some clarity on what this stuff means to me.
I am not a very tech oriented person...just a little bit

Turbe

08-17-2008, 12:03 PM

Each of the 2/3 Memories Per Input available via the Pioneer ISFccc Interface can be calibrated independently, including Pure Cinema and ColorSpace for each Memory on each Input. The ISFccc interface is the only way to use the 9-Point Gamma Controls. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

You use ControlCAL to adjust each of the Controls available (see screen caps in Post #1 of this thread for available Controls). ControlCAL supports all the Controls in the Pioneer ISFccc Interface.

Once each Memory is calibrated and activated, you do not use ControlCAL, you simply select the Memory from your Display's Menu (AV Selection). The standard AV Selections are still available and can be changed/calibrated as you do now. ControlCAL is used during the calibration process. If you need to make changes to the Controls in one or several ISFccc Memories, you simply use ControlCAL again.

ControlCAL is the only application that can access and activate the 9G's ISFccc Interface.

Turbe

08-17-2008, 12:33 PM

I thought Michael's Post would help others understand why some Professionals do not use the Pioneer ISFccc Interface (this is changing :D)

Are you professionals using the ISF inputs on Pioneers sets or not?
Greetings

Let's say you want to do it right and push the performance ... making the most out of what Pioneer gives you. You make a few changes in the CMS on one color ... then you have to go back to look at the grayscale and retweak it. Then a few more clicks ... then back to grayscale ... then a few more clicks ... then back to grayscale ... but!!!!!

Now you find out that you can't fix the grayscale at all this time no matter what you do. So it's reset time back to the previous position and set the one cms parameter back to the previous step. Now go onto the next color ...

There could be 30 to 60 grayscale iterations here trying to tweak out that last few % of performance. And your eyes might not even see the differences on live images.

A 3 hour calibration session has ballooned to 10+ hours ... and suddenly the $350 you are paying your calibrator is not such a great deal for him.

Mind you ... you don't need access to the C3 to do this though. Perfectly achievable in the user menu. All the stuff is there to play with.

Do I as a pro calibrator use the C3 ... yes and no. On Previous generations before G8 ... yes ...

On the G8 ... so far no ... because of the interface fiasco. Although that looks to be solved now. I was doing it all in the user menu for the clients. The results are the same ... and in some ways ... offers the client more flexibility as a result. I am returning to a number of my G8 clients to do it via the C3 interface now because they want it. Those special ISF letters on the screen.

Will they see a difference in performance after it gets done in the C3 ... not at all.

Now we are at the G9 ... and there is more uncertainty again.

regards

Also, some Professionals do not like the idea of 'locking' the ISF Day, ISF Night and ISF Auto Memories. Of course, ControlCAL now makes it easy to access and configure / re-configure them. ;)

Since the proper Pioneer ISFccc workflow has been worked out, I believe more Professionals will start using it since the time needed to perform the calibration will be the same.

I will be Posting a complete list of Professionals (and the Regions they will travel to) who have ControlCAL and do calibrate the Pioneer Elites (and 8G and 9G Models with the ISFccc Interface in other Regions) using the ISFccc Interface. David Abrams of Avical.com (http://www.avical.com/) does National Tours (North America) and Chris Nicholl at Kent Home Cinema (http://www.kenthomecinema.co.uk/) (UK) uses ControlCAL. If you would like another referral, feel free to PM me.

surething

08-29-2008, 08:04 AM

Very good first experience with using ControlCal (just to become familiar with the functionality at this stage) so far.

One point is a pain in a neck. Turbe: after some delay in sending a comand (like 30 sec) LX5090 starts immediately to count down the time left for one for calibration. I guess catching flies is not the environment we are looking for during the calibration. Can this be somehow fixed / adjusted via parameter set?

Surething
LX5090
ControlCal 1.41

Turbe

08-29-2008, 09:21 AM

One point is a pain in a neck. Turbe: after some delay in sending a comand (like 30 sec) LX5090 starts immediately to count down the time left for one for calibration. I guess catching flies is not the environment we are looking for during the calibration. Can this be somehow fixed / adjusted via parameter set?

No, the 8 minute timeout cannot be changed or disabled. It is one of Pioneer's "Safety Mechanisms".

When I did ask for the option to change this value, I was told 8 Minutes is more than enough time.

Remember, the expectation is that you know what you are doing once you enter the ISFccc Interface.

I've been told it's an inconvenience, but after ColorHCFR and/or CalMAN are learned and the proper Pioneer ISFccc workflow (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1482&postcount=35) is used, I rarely see any posts about it.

deterministic

09-04-2008, 04:12 PM

I am an ISF Certified Calibrator and have used ControlCAL on two Pioneer Elite 9G plasmas so far (one being my own). I congratulate you on the software - it works and does what it's advertised to do. I have had no problem with it. If you are keeping a list of enhancement ideas for future releases, I have these suggestions:

1. For activation. I had no problem activating with the Professional License key you sent me. But I recommend that after one does activate successfully with a paid license that the activation selection in the pull-down menu is then greyed-out (could say "This software has been Activated" or something like that.) As it stands now one can select the activation selection item again and all the fields are blank so it looks as if one had never activated.

2. After activating with a paid license key have the licensee's name appear on the startup splash-screen saying "this software is licensed to ....."

3. There is still a problem with the Y-Delay selection, but ignoring it causes no problems.

4. As I understand the Nine (9) Point Gamma, points 1-9 correspond to 10 IRE to 90 IRE. I would label them as such.

5. Get rid of the two page concept (P1 and P2) and have a single page with P1 and P2 tabs. (Make it work like tabbed browsing.)

And that's about it. Again, I like your software a lot.

Frank

Turbe

09-05-2008, 12:03 PM

Thanks for your feedback.. :D

2. After activating with a paid license key have the licensee's name appear on the startup splash-screen saying "this software is licensed to ....."

I can't disable it once activated since ControlCAL can be activated on a per Display Profile basis.. a new Key can be entered to activate additional Display Profiles. It's already on my 'to-do list' to have the Activated Name/Company Name displayed.. :D

3. There is still a problem with the Y-Delay selection, but ignoring it causes no problems.

This is by design. I made the decision to have all the Controls available.. since Y-Delay is only used on Analog Inputs, its label will turn red on REFRESH when used with Digital Inputs. If you don't have Error Dialogs Disabled/Unchecked, you will also see this Dialog:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5&d=1208054913

Originally, I was going to release a Display Profile Set without that Control, but others convinced me not to.

5. Get rid of the two page concept (P1 and P2) and have a single page with P1 and P2 tabs. (Make it work like tabbed browsing.)

I believe you have seen the New Interface Thread.. :D

Serial

09-05-2008, 12:27 PM

"As it stands now one can select the activation selection item again and all the fields are blank so it looks as if one had never activated."

Once activated ControlCAL's main window's title will show Registered, Professional or Professional Plus.

Wolfy

09-06-2008, 01:57 AM

Once activated ControlCAL's main window's title will show Registered, Professional or Professional Plus.Confirmed. :)

waho

09-06-2008, 02:13 AM

...
I believe you have seen the New Interface Thread.. :D

any news regarding the new interface yet?

Turbe

09-06-2008, 10:28 PM

I don't have anything new to report. :(

Saladshooter

09-08-2008, 05:09 PM

I can't get ControlCal to work with my 111FD. Its serial#HFPM003918UC. I have the current version(b20) plus the 9G/Region 1 profile and have followed all the instructions in this thread and still get the "Display's ISF Level is not Compatible with this Profile" error. I have tried three different computers with a serial cable then with a usb/serial adapter. In all cases I get send/receive messages from the terminal window but no ability to turn on the display or make adjustments. Advice?

D-Nice

09-08-2008, 08:19 PM

Are your 9G profiles named Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-4_P1 and Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-4_P2?

Turbe

09-08-2008, 09:15 PM

but no ability to turn on the display

I re-read your message....

If you cannot even Power On your Display using the Button on the Display Profile, you are having a serial communication problem. The Power On is the most basic function for that Display.

Verify the Display's Serial Port Settings (see POST #2 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1435&postcount=2)) and verify ControlCAL's Port Settings (MENU/SETTINGS/PORT SETTINGS).

What model USB to Serial Adapter do you have? There have been issues with some adapters since they are not mimicking a Serial Port 100%.

Are you 100% positive that you are using a Straight-Through Serial Cable? From your post, it appears that you have only tried one cable.

From past experiences, 95% of the time it's the Serial Cable or the Adapter, 5% Port Configuration. The Power On function is very basic.

Saladshooter

09-08-2008, 10:48 PM

Are your 9G profiles named Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-4_P1 and Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-4_P2?

Yes.

I re-read your message....

If you cannot even Power On your Display using the Button on the Display Profile, you are having a serial communication problem. The Power On is the most basic function for that Display.

Verify the Display's Serial Port Settings (see POST #2) and verify ControlCAL's Port Settings (MENU/SETTINGS/PORT SETTINGS).

What model USB to Serial Adapter do you have? There have been issues with some adapters since they are not mimicking a Serial Port 100%.

Are you 100% positive that you are using a Straight-Through Serial Cable? From your post, it appears that you have only tried one cable.

From past experiences, 95% of the time it's the Serial Cable or the Adapter, 5% Port Configuration. The Power On function is very basic.

I am sure that I am using the correct port settings. Of the usb/serial adapter, I have no confidence, since its not the one you support. The serial cable is one I have used for other similar applications so I am less sure that it is the problem but already had plans to find another to test. I will locate a new one and report the results.

Thanks for the replies.

Saladshooter

09-10-2008, 01:21 PM

I purchased another cable and now everything seems to be working. Thanks again for the help.

Saladshooter

09-11-2008, 04:51 PM

PURE CINEMA
0 - Off
1 - Standard
2 - Advance
3 - Smooth

How sure of the Pure Cinema settings are you Turbe?

Smooth and Advance are reversed from how they are in the user menu.

Turbe

09-11-2008, 04:58 PM

How sure of the Pure Cinema settings are you Turbe?

100% - Same as in the 8G's

Smooth and Advance are reversed from how they are in the user menu.

The ISFccc Interface is separate and different and you should forget what you know about the User Menu when using the ISFccc Interface. :D

st50maint

09-12-2008, 09:29 AM

PURE CINEMA
0 - Off
1 - Standard
2 - Advance
3 - Smooth

How sure of the Pure Cinema settings are you Turbe?

Smooth and Advance are reversed from how they are in the user menu.Thanks for pointing that out. I had mine set to smooth when I thought I was in advance.

st50maint

09-12-2008, 09:41 AM

On the 6 Color Management settings, I do not see any numbers to the right of the word "Management". I can make changes, the slider moves, and the display accepts the new values. I just never see a numerical value like on all the other parameters. Is this normal?

Turbe

09-12-2008, 09:53 AM

Saladshooter

09-12-2008, 11:02 AM

100% - Same as in the 8G's

The ISFccc Interface is separate and different and you should forget what you know about the User Menu when using the ISFccc Interface. :D

Ha... I was just askin.:)

It was odd that it was the only control that was apparently reversed from the user menu and I don't have any means of checking other than asking the question. Thanks.:)

ADMIN EDIT: I thought it was odd too.. :D

st50maint

09-12-2008, 11:34 AM

Hi, Please see this THREAD (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79).Thanks. Changing to 96 DPI cured the problem.

Turbe

09-16-2008, 08:42 AM

Rule of thumb is to only touch the Green High/Low controls as a last resort.

Thought this would help some of you...

Turbe

09-23-2008, 08:43 AM

Hey, quick question. What exactly is I-P Mode on Pioneers? Also, what should this be set at. Haven't really seen any documentation regarding that. Thx in advance for the response.

Regards,
Stephen Cooper

Hi Stephen :hiya:

I-P Mode provides optimum conversion from interlace signals to progressive signals:

1 (Motion) optimizes video images
2 (Standard) standard setting
3 (Still) optimizes still images

:thumbup:

Turbe

09-24-2008, 06:03 AM

Here is ISF-Day calibrated to 49fL of peak light output. This is truly perfect :D

Damn that is perfect! This is your set correct? How much better is a Gamma target of 2.3 vs. 2.2? Are you getting added shadow detail?
My target gamma was actually 2.5 but CalMAN doesn't allow a gamma target with two decimal places. A higher gamma can provide more picture depth. However, if you set the gamma too high, the rise out of black will take longer and some would perceive that a "loss of shadow detail". A 2.25 gamma is, IMO, the perfect compromise between picture depth and great shadow detail.

BTW I calibrated your panel to the same 2.25 gamma :)

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ad5

09-24-2008, 07:01 PM

I have a Kuro 9G 60'. Will ControlCAL work with it?
Is ControlCAL designed to work only with Elite Kuros?

Thanks in advance.

DisplayHarmony

09-24-2008, 07:18 PM

I have a Kuro 9G 60'. Will ControlCAL work with it?
Is ControlCAL designed to work only with Elite Kuros?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, check this Thread for the 9G non-elite profile: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78

PioFreak

09-30-2008, 11:05 PM

Controlcal works great! My first night trying it I followed your instructions exactly and it worked flawlessly. I am not a computer guru or wizard, but I had no problem following the directions that are provided in this forum. Special thanks to Wolfy as well:).

I got my European 5090 to turn on, then I chose ISF night, and I just saved the default settings. Then I ended calibration, and turned off the power on the display.....all via my laptop connected to my display using the cables recommended by Turbe (http://datanova.se/ItemInfo?itemId=36738248&itemName=9-poligt+f%C3%B6rl%C3%A4ngningskabel,+DB9ho-DB9ho,+1,8M) and Wolfy (http://datanova.se/ItemInfo?itemId=36738248&itemName=9-poligt+f%C3%B6rl%C3%A4ngningskabel,+DB9ho-DB9ho,+1,8M). When I closed Controlcal I turned my display back on using my remote, and sure enough I saw ISF Night and ISF Day (greyed out since I didn't set this option in Controlcal) as options!!!

Can't wait to "calibrate" the display this weekend using DVE BR....I will be using the good old eye for now. But I look forward to comapring my results to the Movie AV mode that I adjusted using AVIA DVE BR as well. I will post my thoughts and results.

Thanks Turbe.

Turbe

10-02-2008, 02:03 PM

These ISFccc Profiles support the Models listed in Post #1 of the Thread (5020 is not one of them as the ISFccc Interface is not available).

luvnhatesony

10-02-2008, 09:53 PM

After having my Pro-111 calibrated with the use of ControCal by Mr. D-Nice himself about 3 weeks ago, I have been a huge supporter/promoter of ContralCal and the terrific job it does in helping us 9G Elite owner's activate these fantastic ISFccc profiles.

Since I like to have control of being able to tweak certain picture settings, such as contrast or sharpness that won't harm the overall fantastic calibration performed by D-Nice, I decided to get ControlCal myself so I can access the ISFccc profiles without having to pay a pro calibrator to make a simple adjustment for me.

I have to admit, especially since Im not incredibly computer savy, I was pretty nervous about trying out controlcal but thanks in large part to turbe and his step by step directions Im happy to say I was worried about nothing becuase ControlCal worked perfectly for me. :thumbsup:

Like I said, the only thing I ended up adjusting was the contrast controls for ISF day and I didnt dare touch the other settings D-Nice worked so hard to bring to perfection. (Yes turbe, I wrote my settings down like you reccomended :)) ControlCal is definitely a very cool tool and I thank you very much turbe for taking the time to help me through out the proccess :thumbup:

PioFreak

10-03-2008, 04:34 AM

Is there a gamma selection in Controlcal for gamma 1, 2, or 3 like in the normal Av modes?

Turbe

10-03-2008, 09:18 AM

No, in the ISFccc Interface you have the 9-Point Gamma Controls not the Presets.

PioFreak

10-03-2008, 10:05 AM

Anybody figured out a basic approach to the 9 point gamma controls. I know most are leaving them on 0, but I wonder what is the equivelant to gamma 1, 2, or 3?

zaks

10-03-2008, 04:34 PM

Turbe,

ENHANCER MODE on page 2 only accepts values of 1, 2 and 3, yet the slider allows it to be set to 0 which the TV does not accept (the comms window shows an error for that value)... is this by design - did Pioneer perhaps intend to have an "off" position?

Turbe

10-07-2008, 02:15 PM

Only use 1-3 for ENHANCER MODE in the current 9G Profile versions.. I will have to change that. Thanks for the heads up.

PioFreak

10-21-2008, 01:29 PM

When using Controlcal the following parameter is saying a value of 11 on the slider even after I change it to a value of 0. But even though the slider returns to 11 after i refresh, the screen flashes a value of 0. just thought I would point out the glitch.

ZOOM
0 - Dot by Dot (FHD Only)
1 - 4:3
2 - Full
3 - Zoom
4 - Cinema
5 - Wide or Wide1
6 - Full 14:9 (All Models except in North America and Japan)
7 - Cinema 14:9 (All Models except in North America and Japan)
8 - Full 2 (Models in Japan Only)
9 - NOT USED
10 - NOT USED
11 - Auto*
12 - Wide 2 (Europe SD Models with Digital Inputs Only - Regions2)

Turbe

10-21-2008, 01:35 PM

Is Auto Enabled? It sounds like it is, Auto is enabled but the display is telling you that Auto has it currently set to Dot by Dot.

Screen Size can be changed at any time regardless of that setting.

badbob

10-21-2008, 04:47 PM

ok looking into one of these bundles. I guess controlcal adjusts the sliders controls, however that is no different than doing it manually? The UK sets have colour management and manual colour temp, no need to go into service manual. I'm more interested in the actual greyscale calibration, colour management, colour decoder, tint, etc. Is there information of exactly how to do this, using controlcal and the software? Is it fairly complex, and can you screw up the TV? Got videos on just how to do it? What are the differences between each bundle I assume different sensors and the higher end ones being more accurate? Also if I register do you get free controlcal + profile upgrades? Is it possible to change grey bars to black with controlcal?

Turbe

10-21-2008, 05:13 PM

Greetings and Welcome, :hiya:

ControlCAL is the only application that can access the Pioneer 9G ISFccc Interface and supports all Controls and Options. The ISFccc Interface is not accessed from the Service Menu and the Service Menu is not accessed from the ISFccc Interface, they are separate. We worked directly with Pioneer to create the ISFccc Display Profile and we are working directly with the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) in the development and creation of video calibration tools.

ControlCAL is safe to use and nearly every ISF Professionals Internationally that work on Pioneer Displays now use ControlCAL along with many individual owners who go the DIY route. ControlCAL does have a full terminal window where you could start typing random commands and sending them to your display.. obviously, that is not recommended.

The UK sets have colour managment and manual colour temp, no need to go into service manualThis is just like the NA Elites. However, there is benefits to using the ISFccc Interface and like I posted above, you need ControlCAL to do so. For more information Understanding Pioneer's 9G ISFccc Interface, click HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109).

The CalMAN Standard/Meter/ControlCAL Registered Bundles include one Display Profile for ControlCAL (i.e. 8G ISFccc, 9G ISFccc Regions1, 9G ISFccc Regions2). Most recommend using the Chroma 5 meter at the minimum. Click HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1511&postcount=42) for some additional information.

Click HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97) for User Testimonials and Reviews.

Click HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49) for User DIY Threads, also THIS FORUM (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63) and THIS FORUM (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22).

badbob

10-21-2008, 05:29 PM

I would appreciate if someone could post a video of the more complex areas involved with calibration (greyscale, gamma, colour management, tint and other settings why a sensor is bought, over doing it by eye) Plugging in and moving sliders seems simple enough.

Do you know of the hex values of the IR commands for the extra ISF presets? That way I can integrate them into macros.

Turbe

10-21-2008, 05:35 PM

I would appreciate if someone could post a video of the more complex areas involved with calibration (greyscale, gamma) Plugging in and changing sliders seems simple enough.

Do you know of the hex values of the IR commands for the extra settings? That way I can integrate them into macros.

Documentation is attached to this POST (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1435#post1435) (see Posts#2-#4).

For more information in regards to video calibration, see this POST (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14).

There are many users on this forum who take the time to answer questions, share tips and help with calibration. :thumbsup:

CalMAN helps with every step and is highly recommended.

alfredo_mancho

11-16-2008, 09:36 PM

Hey Turbe,

ControlCal was super-easy to use once I got the right serial cable. The cables I was using were null-modem so they didn't work. So my feedback is to update your MS Word doc explicitly stating that there are two types of serial cables (I kept thinking only the straight-through type existed). Other than that this is a wonderful, easy-to-use program and I would definitely recommend it to my friends!

Thanks again for going the distance that night to help me out :thumbsup:

PackFan

11-26-2008, 10:42 AM

Is it normal, the first time I hit REFRESH for my default values on my Pioneer 151 to get ERRORS for R-High, G-High, B-High, R-Low, G-Low, and B-Low?

Thanks.

PackFan

11-26-2008, 10:56 AM

I am using D-Nice's settings from AVSForum to start and want to make sure I'm not screwing anything up...

Is it normal to get these errors?

Turbe

11-26-2008, 11:05 AM

Hi PackFan.. you didn't read the documentation all the way through did you.. :D

Set the COLOR TEMP Control to 6 first. :thumbup:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1436&postcount=3

COLOR TEMP (This Control is also available in Part/Page #1 and #2)
0 -
1 - Low
2 - Mid-Low
3 - Mid
4 - Mid-High
5 - High
6 - Manual <--- REQUIRED FOR SETTING RGB-HIGH (DRIVE) AND RGB-LOW (CUTOFF) CONTROLSThis is also in the PDF Documentation that was attached to your Activation Email. :lesson:

PackFan

11-26-2008, 11:09 AM

I thought I read enough going through the workflow...

So, do I load part 2 of the calibration, and set Color Temp to 6 before I do anything else? I'm a little confused as that was not part of the workflow...

PackFan

11-26-2008, 11:11 AM

In other words - Load Part 2 of the profile - hit REFRESH - change COLOR TEMP to 6, SAVE ALL - and then proceed with everything else?

Turbe

11-26-2008, 11:11 AM

Many people load P2 and set COLOR SPACE TO 2, COLOR TEMP TO 6 first (and set the other Controls on P2), then P1 is used for the remaining time of the session.

EDIT: To answer your question, for the very first time calibrating an ISF Memory (i.e. isf DAY):

Load P2.
Press the START CALIBRATION Button.
Select your Input and Press the SET Button next to the Input Control.
Select your ISF Memory (i.e. ISF DAY MODE Button).
Set COLOR TEMP to 6.
Press the SAVE Button.

You can REFRESH at anytime after that (including right after you load P1 after you are done with P2). I would verify/set all the remaining Controls on P2 for the ISF Memory first though, then Press the SAVE Button.

Actually, you can REFRESH anytime on P2, but to get/read the RGB Highs/Lows on P1, COLOR TEMP needs to be set to 6.. that is why there is a COLOR TEMP Control on both parts.. :D

:oops:I edited your Post.. :(

PackFan

11-26-2008, 11:15 AM

Thanks for the help!

Turbe

11-26-2008, 11:20 AM

I added to my Post above.. :)

Also, the instructions above assume you don't want to use the Color Temp presets (Low, Mid-Low, Mid etc.)...

Turbe

11-26-2008, 02:37 PM

Thanks for the help!

If you are just going to use someone else's posted settings and not do a proper calibration using a meter and other software, see this POST (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16) for step-by-step instructions.

TorontoTaffy

11-26-2008, 07:25 PM

I've been following D-Nice on AVSForum and used ControlCal to input D-Nice settings for ISF Day and Night. The software is very easy to use and instructions made it easy to follow.

This was time well spent as the ISF settings have much more "pop" than the basic Pure settings that D-Nice recommended.

Very happy user. :)

Thanks Turbe

gerianne

12-29-2008, 07:16 AM

I was able to run ControlCAL yesterday for the first time. Although the documentation is VERY thorough, I was still a little nervous about screwing up the terrific calibration that had been done on my Pro-111FD back in November (by Kevin Miller) by doing something I shouldn't do.

No need!! The software is terrific and is super easy to use! Since I was not doing any calibration of my own, merely making a couple of small adjustments to the ISF modes, I used the steps outlined here (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2136&postcount=2) by turbe specifically for entering settings. Worked great!

Thanks so much, turbe, for a great, easy-to-use, affordable piece of software and thanks for providing such extensive documentation (the worst part, isn't it?)! :thumbsup:

Greg

baya-N78

12-30-2008, 01:43 PM

I have just downloaded controlcal and tried to connect my laptop to my display, but I am having some trouble with it.

I am able to power on my display with the Power On button in controlcal and I am able to set the input. But when I hit the Refresh button I get the error message:

"No value(s) and or invalide value(s) received from display for controls in red!"

And all the values goes red.

When i push the Start Calibration button I get the error message:

"No communication from display!"

I am using a usb to serial adapter Sabrent SBT-USC1K Hi-Speed USB 2.0 to Serial DB-9 RS-232 Adapter Cable (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00065H0QQ).

I am also using a straight serial F/F cable between the display and the adapter.

Am I having a cable problem? The cable was kind a cheap..:o

Turbe

12-30-2008, 02:47 PM

If you can both Power On the Display and Power Off the Display with the Buttons on the Display Profile, your cable/adapter is probably ok. But, there could still be issues with that USB to Serial Adapter.

After you pressed the START CALIBRATION Button, Set your Input (and pressed the SET Button next to the Input Control), did you you press one of the ISF MODE (Memory) Buttons (i.e. ISF NIGHT MODE) before pressing the large REFRESH Button?

Please go over the steps one-by-one in the instructions.... EDIT: It doesn't look like you used the instructions (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16) since I don't think you disabled Error Dialogs if you got the following Dialog:

"No value(s) and or invalide value(s) received from display for controls in red!"

I do suggest you Enable/check Auto Send and Disable/uncheck Error Dialogs (under MENU/SETTINGS).

baya-N78

12-31-2008, 01:28 AM

Turbe

12-31-2008, 03:21 AM

I could not get contact with the displayYou can't turn the Display On and Off with the Buttons?

Starting from Standby Mode (Display Off).. type each step you do and each message ControlCAL gives please...

Please type each step in a Post as you do it....

baya-N78

01-01-2009, 12:07 PM

You can't turn the Display On and Off with the Buttons?

Starting from Standby Mode (Display Off).. type each step you do and each message ControlCAL gives please...

Please type each step in a Post as you do it....

1. Enable Auto send OK!
2. Disable Error message OK!
3. Power on OK!
4. Start calibration "Error! No communication from display!

After I have got the error message it is possible to set the input. It seems like I am only able to send some commands to the display but not receive.

Turbe

01-01-2009, 12:51 PM

Use the Power On and Off Buttons a few times (wait 1 minute or so between each one) to verify you can Power On/Off the Display.

Verify your COM Port Settings (Baud Rate, 8 Data Bits, No Parity, 1 Stop Bit and No Flow Control in ControlcAL; verify the the same Baud rate on the Display through the Menus).

Also, once you press the Power On Button, you need to wait until the Display powers on fully before pressing the START CALIBRATION Button (wait at least a minute for testing).

If you have double and triple checked, you are going to have to try another USB to Serial Adapter (maybe even the cable) - I suggest the Keyspan.

baya-N78

01-01-2009, 02:33 PM

Turbe

01-03-2009, 10:11 AM

Another success.. :)
Just a quick update, I have been really busy lately and haven't been able to post. I have a 151 and while I have been happy with my purchase I wished I had a little more punch for sports and was never totally happy with the various settings I tried. Well after researching ControlCAL, and making sure I was comfortable with the process, I took the dive and purchased the software and the Keyspan USB/Serial adapter. My wife and I activated the ISF modes on Christmas Eve, and the difference is amazing. ISF night with DNice's settings is simply the best I have seen a blu-ray look. ISF day makes football look glorious. This is what I wanted out of my 151, and now I have it. I urge all of you guys on the fence to take a chance, ISF night and day modes make this tv shine. Thanks Turbe and DNice for all your hard work, watching Ole Miss and Utah win last night with these new settings....it was better than being there.
Posted: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15446799&postcount=2695

Jim Boden

01-11-2009, 07:23 PM

Another success.. :)

Posted: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15446799&postcount=2695

I have to agree completely with those comments. I fired up ControlCAL for the first time yesterday and set up both ISF Day and Night settings for my 111FD. It's amazing how much punch ISF Day has compared to ISF Night. They both have their purpose and show the power of opening up the ISFccc interface. I also did the side mask adjustment (set it to zero) and love the black instead of grey bars for 4:3 material.

Thanks to Turbe for the great software and documentation plus to all those who have shared their experiences and settings on this and the AVS forums.:D

Slavikk

01-26-2009, 12:26 PM

Had to borrow a laptop from a friend in order to do this, but here are my impressions of the software. It's very easy to use! That's it! Its a great piece of software. Had a few questions for Turbe before and after using ControlCal and unlocking ISF Day and Night modes. Notice I said before and after? Not during? And to Turbe's credit, he answered my email within 10 minutes each time. Must have a Blackberry? To anyone that's uncertain about the "complexity" of using ControlCal. Don't be! The step by step instructions are easy to follow. Turbe, I would have posted this earlier but was to busy watching Blu Ray movies all night long yesterday!

leftkidney

01-28-2009, 11:39 PM

so controlcal stops responding

I press the Power ON to start and nothing happens

this is what I did

PIONEER ISF C3 PROCEDURE FLOW/INSTRUCTIONS
UPDATED: 07/22/2008
Load Profile Part #1 (or Part #2).

From Display Standby...

_1) Press POWER ON Button. - the program is "not responding" and must be force quit - after this when the program shuts down the display turns on leading me to believe that it works fine but for some reason it stops responding

all settings are as they should be

I have Vista Ultimate 32 bit and I am using the serial port on my computer (no adapter needed) and I have the 111-FD

I need some help please

Turbe

01-29-2009, 09:43 AM

Hi,

What Service Pack, Memory, Video Card, Video Card Memory, DirectX Version.

Also, re-verify what COM Port your Serial is configured as.

Make sure your Windows is up to date.

Did you try ControlCAL after re-booting? Try ControlCAL without the cable plugged in (Load Profile, press the Power On/Off Buttons, exit ControlCAL, re-start ControlCAL and repeat these test steps without the cable plugged in). Double check ControlCAL's Port Settings (MENU/SETTINGS).

-Turbe

leftkidney

01-29-2009, 04:54 PM

I tried it without the cable and same thing happens

I emailed this but I will post it here incase someone else has the same problem

I have Vista 32 bit SP1 4GB DDR2 RAM - ATI X1950 PCI-E 256 mb DDR3 - DX10 - serial port NO keyspan - everything is up to date

I am going to go and get my neighbors laptop and try that to see whats up I will let you know in about an hour or so

leftkidney

01-29-2009, 05:41 PM

so there is no serial port on my friends laptop

but the program runs fine and I only get an error for the com port since there isnt one on that computer - but it dont crash - it is also running vista so its probably not that

I have tried to run as admin with no luck

it has to be this computer or this install of vista - I have linux as my main OS and Vista is only used for gaming and things like this - does anyone know if this program runs in wine?

leftkidney

01-29-2009, 06:31 PM

ya ta! (I did it!)

I had to blast my backed up image onto my computer and reinstall some programs that I installed in the last 30 days but windows is now reinstalled (I love drive snapshot, it only took 10 min to copy over the backup and windows is up and running in less than 15 min)

so there must have been a problem with the install of windows or the driver for the com port - I tried to reinstall the com port driver but that didnt work so I reinstalled and it works great

ONE problem - it is said that the color temp has to be set to 0 manual for whatever - if i set it to 0 and then press the send button it gives me an error

Turbe

01-29-2009, 06:35 PM

:clap:

so there must have been a problem with the install of windows or the driver for the com port - I tried to reinstall the com port driver but that didnt work so I reinstalled and it works great

I thought you had a standard Serial Port (2 Rows, 9 Pins).. :confused: A standard Serial Port doesn't need additional drivers, the O/S should take care of that.

ONE problem - it is said that the color temp has to be set to 0 manual for whatever - if i set it to 0 and then press the send button it gives me an error

What are you reading? :confused: It says to set that to 6 for Manual.. :devil:

:thumbsup:

leftkidney

01-29-2009, 07:36 PM

it is a normal 9 pin serial port - but there are drivers or system files to be exact

they are called serenum.sys (released 01-18-08 for vista) and serial.sys (released 11-01-06 also for vista but before vista came out)

these from what I understand are needed to talk to the software since the windows API dont run on DOS anymore so it needs something to translate

so my computer is (not that it matters, but maybe it could help - I code in assembler so I know sometimes every single piece of info is useful)

ASUS mobo - P5WDH Deluxe up to date firmware/bios
Antec 850 watt PSU
Intel 2.4GHz Q6600 G0 CPU - overclocked to 3.2GHz
OCZ 5.5.5.15 DDR2 800Mhz 2GBx2 4GB total
ATI X1950 Pro 256 mb DDR3 PCI-E
a lot of HD's - like 3TB or more all Seagate

no other pci cards installed

it should have been 6 not 0 sorry I got the number wrong

it says this here http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16 but I confused the 0 and the 6 so 6 works but 0 gives an error

Adjust each Control (i.e. Color Space = 2, Pure Cinema = 2, Color Temp = 6 etc.). NOTE: COLOR TEMP=6 IS REQUIRED FOR SETTING RGB-HIGH (DRIVE) AND RGB-LOW (CUTOFF) CONTROLS.

Turbe

01-29-2009, 08:38 PM

Yep, but on Install, Vista should have installed the proper serial driver, weird...

leftkidney

01-30-2009, 12:03 AM

maybe it did - the image I had worked fine so it must have been corrupted somehow and the reinstall fixed this

radtek

01-30-2009, 06:01 PM

I finally got all my ducks in a row and some time off from work to use the ControlCal utility. I used D-nice's ISF day and ISF night settings and loaded them into my 151FD's inputs 4 and 5.
I was like a lot of guys a little apprehensive at first but ControlCal is very easy to use. I just followed the directions posted by Turbe and it went as smooth as could be.

I have only watched ISFday so far and there is a noticeable difference compared to D-nice's Pure settings. I mean the pure settings were damn good on my 151 but the ISF day settings were damn Gooder (if I can use the term) I see more depth of field and for lack of a better word, pop!

Tonight I will try some Blu and use the ISF night settings for that input.
This really peaked my interest in DIY calibration and noticed a growing itch to get some additional equip. and SW and try and learn this. I better start saving more pennies now as my list for stuff seems to be getting longer.

ghook2020

02-01-2009, 09:08 AM

Turbe -

First, thanks again for developing ControlCal and for sending me the usb-2-serial+cable combo. Worked perfectly on first setup.

Just created an ISF Night mode for my Pio 141FD using Peter's settings for his Panasonic BD55 (I have the BD30).

Wow. Had used the Optimum setting with the room light sensor on. What a difference. No more eye strain! Beautiful natural colors. Amazing detail.

Just watched Baraka -- the beauty of the source and display combo leaves me speechless. Wow again.

Am looking forward to purchasing the IP-based release of ControlCal!

Regards,

Hook

jmschnur

02-05-2009, 09:27 AM

I am up with some key help from Shawn (thanks!!) and have installed D-Nice's settings for day and night. Later on I will check them with ColorFacts and a borrowed Minolta I have access too sometimes.

How does one set the auto setting if one knows the settings for a dark and bright room. Does this setting use the pioneer light and color settings coupled with those settings to adjust the picture? I note that in this forum D-nice has said to use the day settings and put intellegent to on.

So another question is what does this setting do (enable use of the light and color sensors??)

Joel

jmschnur

02-06-2009, 06:04 PM

I just installed Controlcal. Inserting D-Nice's settings was straightforward. The picture is very nice indeed.
I had thought I could not get to the RS 232 on my set since it was on the wall-but it was easily accessible from the bottom of the set. Connecting my XP laptop to the 151 worked.

Bigwaved

02-09-2009, 08:31 PM

I am receiving an error message
that says no values or invalid values for controls in red when I refresh isf day mode part 1. Part two for the c3 works fine. Any suggestions?

Turbe

02-09-2009, 08:46 PM

All the Controls? If not, what specific Controls (Control Label Names) turn RED?

Bigwaved

02-09-2009, 08:53 PM

All the Controls? If not, what specific Controls (Control Label Names) turn RED?
r-high, g-high, b-high, r-low, g-low, b-low

Turbe

02-09-2009, 09:21 PM

You need to set the Color Temp Control to 6 (for Manual) to Set and/or REFRESH those Settings. See: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16

I noticed from your Post that you didn't have Error Dialogs disabled (MENU/SETTINGS, make sure Error Dialogs is unchecked) and please do read all the instructions (link above) first and then follow them step by step.

:devil:

Few read my entire Activation Email and Instructions.. :(

Bigwaved

02-09-2009, 09:38 PM

Bigwaved

02-10-2009, 07:52 PM

I am very pleased with the results following my use of the ControlCal software and serial cable bundle. Everything worked like a charm once I received some gentle guidance from Turbe. My suggestion to anyone who has not tried this before is to resist doing it after a full day at work and a house with a lot of commotion going on in the background. Almost every issue I encountered was of my own doing.

nd4spd

02-11-2009, 09:27 AM

Hi Turbe

Just to let you know that I have successfully activated the ISFccc day and night memory presets using your software. For the moment I am using the settings posted in the 5090H thread except that I found that a contrast setting of 35 on ISFday is too bright for normal watch (controled light environment) so I am using the night and day presets with the same contrast setting (25) but with different Purecinema settings. I still have ISFauto and don't know what to do with it…J

Please allow me to thank you for your great software and step by step instructions; it was a real pleasure to use it.

Will get a meter in 1-2 months and will refine these settings.

corpfan1

03-10-2009, 02:14 AM

I also did the side mask adjustment (set it to zero) and love the black instead of grey bars for 4:3 material.

How do you change this? I have the second profile...but can't figure out how to change the setting to 0 and save it.

Thanks!

Jim Boden

03-11-2009, 07:48 PM

How do you change this? I have the second profile...but can't figure out how to change the setting to 0 and save it.

Thanks!

My memory is a little fuzzy because I did it a few weeks ago, but here goes.

After you load the profile, and have the panel powered on, click SM On. This is the equivalent of picking ISF Day, Night, or Auto. Next, go to the Side Mask Level slider and drag it to the left until it reaches zero, then click on Send right beside the slider. I think the last step is to click SM Off, and it's done.

Turbe may correct me on this, but that's how I remember it.

slumpey326

03-15-2009, 09:38 AM

Jim Boden

03-15-2009, 02:58 PM

I just got a new laptop and it is vista 64bit. Is this going to be a problem with controlcal. I am probably going to order the controlcal bundle later today, do I have to specify something specific. I also have the pioneer pro-111fd.

ControlCAL works just fine on a Vista 64 bit system. You may have to get a USB/serial adapter, though, as most new laptops don't have a serial port.

slumpey326

03-15-2009, 03:20 PM

Jim Boden

03-15-2009, 03:25 PM

I just did the $75 bundle donate today, so hopefully I will get everything in a few days and will work just fine.

Just need instructions how to use it and not mess with the settings that were already professionally calibrated for my tv. Want controlcal to verfiy some ISF settings, especially Pure cinema

You can download all the documentation and profiles from this site for free. Turbe will authorize your software once payment is received. The authorization is specific to the profiles for your particular panel.

slumpey326

03-15-2009, 03:46 PM

turbe, I donated $75 for the bundle including the 2 profiles today. Please advise when you can how I should proceed regarding the 2 profiles. I know I have to wait for the bundle to be mailed to me, but can atleast have the 2 profiles ready I guess.

I have the Pro-111FD so can you please set me up accordingly.

slumpey326

03-18-2009, 06:55 AM

just looking at the instructions beforehand so I am all ready to go when the package arives hopefully today.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN EXACTLY:

PIONEER ISF C3 PROCEDURE FLOW/INSTRUCTIONS
UPDATED: 07/22/2008
Load Profile Part #1 (or Part #2).

From Display Standby...

_1) Press POWER ON Button.

Is this talking about doing something to the tv specifically or is this all in controlcal? Basically will my computer be running the tv, do I not need to be using the pioneer remote during this at all.

Rin-chan

03-18-2009, 11:26 AM

I'm having a small problem. First I tried to use my laptop, but I got the " No communication from the display ". I changed computer, and now it seemed to work as I got the SENT RECIEVED, but this time I got the " Display's ISF level is not compatible with this profile ". I tried the following
1: Start ControlCAL (Display is in standby)
2: Load profile 2
3: F12
4: Power on
5: Start Calibration
= Display's ISF level is not compatible with this profile

I also tried the normal step by step. I'm using a USB to serial adapter, a DB9 straight(male/male) with 2 gender changer on each thus creating a straight DB9 female/female.

Using Regions 1 with my PDP-LX5090H.

Turbe

03-18-2009, 11:43 AM

:hiya:

When you use the POWER ON Button, does your LX5090H actually Power On (also Off when you use POWER OFF)? If not, you probably have the COM Port setting wrong.

Don't worry about pressing F12 either.

Rin-chan

03-18-2009, 11:46 AM

Yeah, the TV is turning on and off when I press the POWER ON and OFF button.

Turbe

03-18-2009, 12:27 PM

Ok, please post the exact Display Profile file name (with extension) and also the complete Display Model Number from the label on the back of the Display.

Also, verify the Port Speed in both the Display and ControlCAL (MENU/SETTINGS/PORT SETTINGS).

It may be possible there is an issue with the cable with all those connections...

-Turbe

Rin-chan

03-18-2009, 12:42 PM

Display Profile Name: Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-4_P1.cdp / Pioneer_9G_C3_Regions1_v0-4_P2.cdp

Display Model Number: PDP-LX5090H/WYS7 / MFD Dec 2008 / Ser No: ******5229ER

Port setup(CC): 9600 Baud, 8 Data Bits, NO Parity and 1 Stop Bits, no flow control.

Port setup(display): 9600

This is pretty much everything, I think?

ADMIN EDIT: Don't need all the S/N

Turbe

03-18-2009, 01:43 PM

If you have tried using the START CALIBRATION Button a few times and still get the same message.. we need to try another cable (with just Pins 2<---> 2 and 3<--->3). I've had this issue myself until I switched one of the cable adapters (end result below) and another user had a similiar issue. Changing the Cable and any Adapters resolved it.

Best to have a simple straight-through serial cable (no adapters).

Also, are you using your Computer's Serial Port (9 Male Pins) or a USB Serial Adapter?

http://i36.tinypic.com/30ib613.jpg

Turbe

03-18-2009, 01:49 PM

Just in case, check around in your User Menus and see if there is a similar setting that the Monitors have:

MONITOR NOTE: The Serial Port ID No. must be set to All (Home Menu / Control Setup / Serial Setting / ID No.Set=All).

Rin-chan

03-18-2009, 01:53 PM

Yeah, I tried several times but still getting the message. Not sure where I should find myself a 2 / 3 pin cable. Also, Im not sure if the serial cable I got is a straight through, it said Switchcable on the homepage, not straight or null modem.

Using a USB to serial adapter.

Turbe

03-18-2009, 02:02 PM

We have our USB Serial Adapter and Serial Cable (configured for the Pioneers) for $35US plus $12US to your Country ($35 includes USPS Priority Shipping within the US).

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173

slumpey326

03-18-2009, 05:59 PM

turbe, everything worked perfectly. No problems at all. Used my desktop which is vista 32 instead of the labtop. Smooth sailing.

Thanks again for all the help

Rin-chan

03-19-2009, 10:56 AM

Everything works for me too! I bought another cable, and boom! Thanks for the help Turbe.:)

zandym

03-21-2009, 06:49 PM

Hi,

I am having problems setting up the ISF settings for one input on my TV(9G elite) (the rest works fine).
It only seems to take a few settings like contrast and brightness(sharpness and the rest are disabled - see screenshots) and I can't seem to enable ISF-auto on that input as well. (only Isf-Day and Isf-Night)

This input (Input 5) is connected to my HTPC via HDMI but the issue also occurs with the HDMI cable plugged off and with the TV power-cycled. (Somehow it remembers?)

Now, I know that when connected to 1080p 60hz source, I only get the Standard and User settings so having the additional ISF-modes is a big plus. But now, not being able to fully configure the ISF is a big letdown.

This is what I get with ISF-Day and ISF night for that input.
http://zandy.smugmug.com/photos/495753583_QsHnY-L.gif

http://zandy.smugmug.com/photos/495815928_5E44S-L.gif

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
-Zandy

Turbe

03-22-2009, 11:31 AM

That looks like you are not even in the ISFccc Interface config Mode (START CALIBRATION).

Do you see that the ISFccc interface OSD text (look on your screen, top and bottom) after you press START CALIBRATION? Also after you select the Input and press the SET Button?

What do you have Input 5 configured as (Video or PC)?

Is Input setup/enabled in your Elite?

Please post the exact steps you are using (from standby).

Also, have you been able to activate the ISFccc Interface on other Inputs?

---> Lastly, I would try using another Source (i.e. your Cable/Sat Box, Bluray Player etc) with Input 5 (using HDMI, config Video) and try again.

-Turbe

zandym

03-22-2009, 09:31 PM

Hi Turbe,

See my answers below.

That looks like you are not even in the ISFccc Interface config Mode (START CALIBRATION).

I did hit Start Calibration, picked an ISF mode(in this case ISF-Day), set the input to Input 5, then hit the refresh button just to get the display to show some some of the settings in red. (those are the ones I can't change)

Do you see that the ISFccc interface OSD text (look on your screen, top and bottom) after you press START CALIBRATION? Also after you select the Input and press the SET Button?

Yes. I can see ISF at the top and then it changes to ISF-Day or ISF Night if I click on those buttons. If I click on ISF-Auto, it doesn't do anything. I did notice that I get a 'RECEIVED ERROR CODE' in the background screen when I do that. This also happens if I try to change any of the settings in red on my previos screen-shot.

What do you have Input 5 configured as (Video or PC)?

I have Input5 configured as PC.

Is Input setup/enabled in your Elite?

Not sure what you mean here...

Please post the exact steps you are using (from standby).
Also, have you been able to activate the ISFccc Interface on other Inputs?

I have been using the exact steps you have written on another thread and have successfully been able to configure all the other inputs.

---> Lastly, I would try using another Source (i.e. your Cable/Sat Box, Bluray Player etc) with Input 5 (using HDMI, config Video) and try again.

What I did was switch the HDMI cables for Input5(HTPC) and Input4(DishNet). Now, I can configure everything on Input5 -connected to Dishnet, but the issue now moves to Input4, which is connected to my HTPC. Input4, by the way is in Video mode so I don't think that setting makes a difference.

-Turbe

By the way, the TV has the latest firmware installed.

Turbe

03-22-2009, 09:42 PM

I know you can't use isf Auto with HDMI configured as PC.

isf-AUTO - This command is invalid when analog PC or HDMI-PC is selected

because isf-AUTO can not be selected at the time of the analog PC input and the HDMI-PC input.Reset the Input config to Video (not PC)... If you still are having issues, you can either use your BR Player as source (if Inputting a signal during adjustment) or try it without sending a Input Signal during adjustment.

Please Note: those Controls in RED in your Pics are not valid with the Input is configured as PC.

mvp2005fan

04-13-2009, 06:47 PM

I bought ControlCal a few days ago, and was able to use the program to enter the DNice settings on my 151 today.

The software was really easy to use and became quite intuitive after a few minutes. It found the television via the serial port from my notebook's docking station without problems. I just followed the directions step by step.

I didn't have a problem with timing out (I was pressing the little "send" buttons every few seconds as I entered things--I forgot I had enabled autosave :o).

I ended up entering the settings for all 4 HDMI inputs. The "Send All" feature turned out to be really handy in transferring settings to the other inputs, and made things fast.

Afterwards, the "The Dark Knight" on blu-ray looked GREAT!

As far as feedback (if I may); I was thinking it would be helpful to be able to send settings to multiple inputs at the same time. For example, having a "multiple send to" option would come in handy when calibrating 2 or more inputs.

Since I was using a laptop with a pointing stick (i.e. Thinkpad), the sliders were a little hard to use. Having buttons to adjust the value of each parameter to click on would be nice.

Also, I would also love to have an option to import profile settings into ControlCal. A little timer would also be helpful to keep track of that 8:00 minute deadline.

These are just tiny, little suggestions for a really useful program.

I would encourage anyone who is thinking about using Control Cal to just "go for it"--if I can do it, anyone can. :)

Turbe, I just wanted to personally thank you for your time, efforts, and help.
I really appreciate it! :thumbsup:

Turbe

04-13-2009, 07:07 PM

Since I was using a laptop with a pointing stick (i.e. Thinkpad), the sliders were a little hard to use. Having buttons to adjust the value of each parameter to click on would be nice.

Hi, thanks for posting :thumbsup:

Did you know you can select the Control (slider) and use the Keyboard's Right/Left Arrow Keys to move the slider 1 step at a time.? :D

mvp2005fan

04-14-2009, 12:42 AM

Hi, thanks for posting :thumbsup:

Did you know you can select the Control (slider) and use the Keyboard's Right/Left Arrow Keys to move the slider 1 step at a time.? :D

Cool! Thanks! (I forgot to turn on Intelligence in ISF Auto, so I'll try this tip out tomorrow)

Spoonyg

04-14-2009, 11:41 AM

Instead of the slider, can you type a number in the box? I too have the touch pad on my laptop but found it easier to type -1, +2, 6, -15 etc. Does the method work?

Turbe

04-14-2009, 11:47 AM

Yes, that is why those little white boxes (with small SEND Buttons) next to each Control/Slider are there :D

Simply type any valid value in and press the small SEND button next to that box....

You can use any method (at anytime):

Move Slider with Mouse (press the small SEND Button if Auto Send is disabled). NOTE: Value won't be sent each time you move the Slider if Auto Send is disabled (MENU/SETTINGS) - Press the small SEND Button to send the Control's current value.
Move Slider with Right/Left Arrow keys on keyboard (after selecting that Control/Slider with your Mouse). NOTE: Value won't be sent each time you move the Slider if Auto Send is disabled (MENU/SETTINGS) - Press the small SEND Button to send the Control's current value.
Enter a value directly into the Control's white box and press the small SEND Button.

You can press/use the small SEND buttons at anytime regardless if Auto Send is enabled.

:thumbsup:

Spoonyg

04-15-2009, 05:25 PM

Turbe

04-15-2009, 07:37 PM

TUNER is only for the built-in Tuner, sounds like you are using the Tuner on your cable box connected to Input 1, so you would select Input 1 and adjust/calibrate.. :D

Spoonyg

04-16-2009, 09:38 AM

TUNER is only for the built-in Tuner, sounds like you are using the Tuner on your cable box connected to Input 1, so you would select Input 1 and adjust/calibrate.. :D

Thanks -

Any reason I should install the firmware update on my 111fd?
Seems like the fixes don't apply to what I use the display for.
I've heard firmware updates often times creates unintended consequences.

gregor

04-16-2009, 12:19 PM

Hi Turbe,

Just received the cable and USB Adapter today. With all the instructions included with the activation key email, it took less than 30 minutes to install the drivers/activate the profiles on my Macbook running XP, and successfully enter the service menu on my PDP-LX5090H !
The bad news is that i have "only" 115h for panel time. So i guess i will have to wait to activate the ISF profiles until the 200 hours of panel time...
But i am pretty confident now that everything has worked flawlessly so far !

thanks again.:thumbsup:

Turbe

04-16-2009, 12:38 PM

Thanks -

Any reason I should install the firmware update on my 111fd?
Seems like the fixes don't apply to what I use the display for.
I've heard firmware updates often times creates unintended consequences.

Pioneer does recommend owners to do the firmware update. I personally have not seen any report issues in regards to the update process.

However, I suppose if you don't use the internal Tuner and you are not having issues, you may not want to take the time. I would suggest you download the firmware, instructions etc. in a backup. :D

giddyup69

04-17-2009, 08:14 AM

Spoonyg

04-17-2009, 10:35 AM

tried the software last night. had a weird error at first.. but another try solved it. everything worked out well... was up and running in about 15 minutes with all the isf modes. although i did find re-inputting all the values tedious after a while... meh... i guess the price to pay for one of the best panels out there ! :D

thanks to turbe for the software and d-nice for his settings !

cheers everyone.

Did the firmware update cause you to have to re-input the values again? I've already calibrated several inputs and I was contemplating not doing the firmware update at all. Didn't seem necessary.

teeteehead

04-18-2009, 01:43 PM

i am having the hardest time doing this. I am a comupter nub. Can someone please take the time to post links to the proper downloads in step for me.

Thanks

Turbe

04-18-2009, 04:03 PM

i am having the hardest time doing this. I am a computer nub. Can someone please take the time to post links to the proper downloads in step for me.

Thanks

I emailed you the current Direct Links. I didn't want to post the direct links here since the Links can change in the future - I'd rather send people to the proper Forum Threads.

You need to extract all files from all Zips into one directory (create a new directory/folder off your C: Drive and call is ControlCAL i.e. C:\ControlCAL)

See this Post for more info: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16

There is a sample pic of what the directory will look like.

teeteehead

04-19-2009, 10:37 PM

Thank you again for all your help!!!!

Steevo25

04-21-2009, 12:44 PM

ControlCAL is an absolutely fantastic product. I have the 9G Region 2 profile and the 8G profile for my 2 sets. They both work perfectly and are extremely easy to use. Also, the response from Turbe has been excellent. Even though there is an 8 hour time difference between us everything from purchase to activation code was sorted very quickly.

rkish

04-24-2009, 06:15 AM

Turbe:

I ran the ControlCAL software last night and attempted to unlock and calibrate "ISF-Night" for my DirecTV (Input 4) and Blu Ray player (Input 5).

FYI...I was able to use the serial cable that you sent with the bundle and did NOT need to use the USB adapter.

Everything seemed to proceed properly. I was able to communicate with my 111FD, run both profiles, change settings (Auto send was enabled), save the settings and then End Calibration. It ran through the sending of settings to the display (I waited until it finished) and then powered off the display. There were NO errors (at least, I didn't notice any). I disconnected the serial cable from my display and plugged TV back in and powered up.

Unless there is a step that I missed or I omitted something in the calibration process, I DO NOT see ISF-Night showing up either under Input 4 (D-TV) or Input 5 (BD) as an addtional AV selection. Is there something additional that I have to do, or have I just missed a step somewhere?

ShoeHorn

04-24-2009, 10:46 AM

maybe you missed a step

per this link , after the bit where it says START CALIBRATION you have to click on ISF DAY/ ISF NIGHT button

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16

Turbe

04-24-2009, 10:55 AM

maybe you missed a step

per this link , after the bit where it says START CALIBRATION you have to click on ISF DAY/ ISF NIGHT button

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2218&postcount=16

Well, you SET the INPUT first after START CALIBRATION, then click on one of the ISFccc Memory Buttons (ISF NIGHT, ISF DAY etc).

You must use the SAVE Button on each ISFccc Memory - Some people get confused and think that since they have Auto Send enabled that the settings will get Saved automatically, they don't. This 2 Step Process allows you to make changes in real time (see changes onscreen) yet abandon those changes if desired which is what you want sometimes during an actual calibration.

The SAVE Button actually Saves the settings for that ISFccc Memory (and activate the memory in the AV Selections if not already).

Follow the process (step by step) to activate 1 ISFccc Memory (only do 1 ISFccc Memory to start) - Link above.

-Turbe

rkish

04-24-2009, 11:26 AM

Well, you SET the INPUT first after START CALIBRATION, then click on one of the ISFccc Memory Buttons (ISF NIGHT, ISF DAY etc).

You must use the SAVE Button on each ISFccc Memory - Some people get confused and think that since they have Auto Send enabled that the settings will get Saved automatically, they don't. This 2 Step Process allows you to make changes in real time (see changes onscreen) yet abandon those changes if desired which is what you want sometimes during an actual calibration.

The SAVE Button actually Saves the settings for that ISFccc Memory (and activate the memory in the AV Selections if not already).

Follow the process (step by step) to activate 1 ISFccc Memory (only do 1 ISFccc Memory to start) - Link above.

-Turbe

I did follow your instructions "to a T", but it's possible that I might have done just that. But I'm pretty sure that I did save, as I only set up ISF-Night for (2) inputs. I didn't want to attempt any others, until I was sure that it would take.

I don't remember from your procedure, but do you have to "End Calibration" for each input under a specific memory (I did), or can you set up more than one input and then end calibration?

I would also assume that you must end calibration after each memory type, or can you do all three (in my case) and then end calibration. Once again, I don't have your procedure in front of me, so I can't check it out firsthand.

Don't worry...I'll go one at a time, until I'm sure I'm doing it correctly. :D

Thanks for your help with this Turbe! :)

Turbe

04-24-2009, 11:34 AM

I would also assume that you must end calibration after each memory type, or can you do all three (in my case) and then end calibration.

No, you don't press END CALIBRATION after each ISFccc Memory :devil:

You can do all ISFccc Memories on all Inputs (of course pressing SAVE on each ISFccc Memory), then press END CALIBRATION.

------> Just do 1 ISFccc memory (i.e. isf Night) on 1 Input to start.

-Turbe

rkish

04-24-2009, 11:58 AM

No, you don't press END CALIBRATION after each ISFccc Memory :devil:

You can do all ISFccc Memories on all Inputs (of course pressing SAVE on each ISFccc Memory), then press END CALIBRATION.

------> Just do 1 ISFccc memory (i.e. isf Night) on 1 Input to start.

-Turbe

Worry not...I'll try setting up ISF-Night for 1 input again to make sure there are no issues. Then I'll finish up the rest of the memories! :D

(To quote Columbo...)...Just one more question...

I'm assuming that if everything "takes", that when you power the TV back up after the calibration, that you can see the new "memory" (AV selection) in the menu with the others?

The only other thing that I can think of, is that after I ended calibration and powered off the TV, that I unplugged the TV before removing the serial cable. I then plugged it back in and powered up. I doubt that this would affect the results?

rkish

04-24-2009, 12:07 PM

Sorry...keep thinking of questions after I post.

You say it's recommended to unplug the TV when connecting the serial cable. Is this for all the time, or only if connected to a laptop/PC. Is it also recommended to unplug TV when disconnecting serial cable? Is there any problem with leaving the serial cable connected to the TV between calibrations (while watching the TV)?

I neglected to unplug and connected while the TV was "On", but caught myself and unplugged when disconnecting the cable (and will unplug TV when I connect cable on the next attempt).

Once again...sorry for being so verbose.

Turbe

04-24-2009, 12:33 PM

Manufacturer Recommendations :D

Now, is everyone doing it (including Professional Calibrators)? That may be another story. :devil:

Turbe

04-24-2009, 12:37 PM

I'm assuming that if everything "takes", that when you power the TV back up after the calibration, that you can see the new "memory" (AV selection) in the menu with the others?

Just keep everything plugged in (I actually keep a serial cable plugged in all the time) and you should see the ISFccc Memory under the AV Selection List for that Input after you END CALIBRATION if the steps were followed (without powering off). Make sure that you select that Input too (with the Remote Control). :devil:

rkish

04-24-2009, 12:57 PM

Thanks Turbe! I'm an anal Network Specialist that breaks the rules at times as well. Just want to make sure that I minimize the damage. ;)

Thanks again! :D

rkish

04-24-2009, 06:41 PM

Hey Turbe:

In case you missed the thread over at AVS...I figured out what I was doing wrong...

"I decided this time to use the individual "sends" and I had been inputting numbers instead of using the sliders. That would explain why the values didn't take.

That said, I got the (3) profiles set up and I couldn't be happier! ISF-Night is very close to "Cinema" on my Panny 85U. It could be a toss between Pure and ISF-Night for Blu Rays and I'm using ISF-Auto for baseball.

ControlCAL is fairly easy to use, once you get the routine down.

Thanks for all your help! I'm a happy camper! :D

Turbe

04-24-2009, 06:48 PM

Yes, I saw the Post which made me think I need to update the ISFccc Step by Step Instructions (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263) with an IMPORTANT Note.. :D

rkish

04-25-2009, 07:47 AM

Turbe:

I just ran the "profile" for ISF-Auto, did a refresh on both profile screens and ended calibration. I didn't know about using ISF-Day settings and enabling Intelligence.

Is Intelligence only "On" or "Off" (0 or 1) or can you set it to "2", as in the user menu to enable light and color? If so, which setting is recommended?

Thanks!

nealh

05-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Turbe:

I have a couple follow up questions to make sure I understand the procedure.

1. For example: After load P2 profile, you hit ISF DAY then refresh to get the panel settings. Then load your settings and save. Then load P1 profile and hit refresh to get panel settings again. Load new settings and save. you DO NOT have to hit ISF DAY in bewteen is that correct?

2. You do not have to END calibration after setting up each ISF mode? So I can enter ISF-DAY save after entering the settings reload P2 and hit ISF-NIGHT, go through the procedural flow sheet save at approrpiate time and repeat, then enter ISF-AUTO then save again.

After all 3 modes are saved I can END Calibration?

Turbe

05-10-2009, 11:48 AM

1. For example: After load P2 profile, you hit ISF DAY then refresh to get the panel settings. Then load your settings and save. Then load P1 profile and hit refresh to get panel settings again. Load new settings and save. you DO NOT have to hit ISF DAY in bewteen is that correct?

Actually, Load P2, press START CALIBRATION, Set Input then hit ISF DAY Mode button :)

That is correct, the display is already in the ISF DAY memory for that Input - you could hit the ISF DAY MODE button again if you wanted though.

2. You do not have to END calibration after setting up each ISF mode? So I can enter ISF-DAY save after entering the settings reload P2 and hit ISF-NIGHT, go through the procedural flow sheet save at approrpiate time and repeat, then enter ISF-AUTO then save again.

After all 3 modes are saved I can END Calibration?

That is correct, use END CALIBRATION when you are done with your session (several ISFccc Memories on different Inputs).

What you can do is simply Set your settings on P2 for many ISFccc memories (and Inputs) then move to P1 for those memories (and Inputs). SEND ALL could come in handy for this :D

nealh

05-10-2009, 11:53 AM

Thanks Turbe

BTW is it safe to leave the serial cable connected all the the time? Just makes it easier so I do not have to move my TV stand.

go111

05-15-2009, 09:20 PM

Hello. I have a 111FD and just used ControlCal.

First, let me say that Turbe's support has been phenomenal. I ordered the bundle on a Saturday afternoon and had the cables on Monday! When I had questions re downloading the software and the profiles, the response was immediate.

Once I read the instructions, the actual use of the software was a piece of cake! And, most importantly, I love the picture ...

Of course, as a novice DIY-er, I do have some questions (i apologize if some/all are silly) ... so here goes:

1. I am using D-Nice's suggested settings from AVS forum (as a novice, I figure that's the best way to start out)... I noticed a couple of settings in the software that are not in D-Nice's settings: A. Y-delay - 0 and B. Zoom = 5. I know zoom has to do with the screen size setting; have no idea re the y-delay. I left both of these settings as is. Any problem?

2. After I ran the ISF-Day and ISF-Night settings (with just a couple of false starts!), I saved the settings, ended the calibrations (each time) and disconnected from the computer. But then I had an issue and had to unplug both the HDMI cable that runs from the cable box to the TV, as well as the TV's power cord itself. Now I'm worried that the setting I set up for ISF Day and Night got lost or changed. The HDMI cord was out less than 5 mins and the power cord about the same. May I assume the settings I ran are still "there" and haven't changed or been re-set (the modes are now active after I replugged in the TV).

3. Oh boy, then I had an issue with my receiver -- and unplugged that overnight! (The TV remained plugged in as did the cable box and HDMI cable to the TV from the cable box). I assume that since the TV remained plugged in, there will be no effect on the ISF settings from unplugging the receiver for roughly 18-24 hours...

4. I'm going to go back on AVS forum and re-check -- but are there suggested settings for ISF-Auto (I didnt see any, and so didn' t set up)?

5. Do you know if this is right: D-Nice's settings for Day and Night have gamma settings for R, G, B from 10-90%; controlcal has gammas 1-9; I assumed that 1 was 10%, 2 was 20% .... etc. -- is that right?

6. Finally, is the only way to check the ISF settings to go back in to controlcal and hit "refresh" on each of p1 and p2 to see if the settings are still the ones you want?

Sorry for the long post -- great software -- I appreciate any help/guidance. Thanks!!

Turbe

05-15-2009, 09:53 PM

First, let me say that Turbe's support has been phenomenal. I ordered the bundle on a Saturday afternoon and had the cables on Monday! When I had questions re downloading the software and the profiles, the response was immediate.

Once I read the instructions, the actual use of the software was a piece of cake! And, most importantly, I love the picture ...

:thumbup:

1. I am using D-Nice's suggested settings from AVS forum (as a novice, I figure that's the best way to start out)... I noticed a couple of settings in the software that are not in D-Nice's settings: A. Y-delay - 0 and B. Zoom = 5. I know zoom has to do with the screen size setting; have no idea re the y-delay. I left both of these settings as is. Any problem?Y-Delay is not valid for HDMI inputs, you can ignore it (and the fact it's label turn Red on REFRESH).

2. After I ran the ISF-Day and ISF-Night settings (with just a couple of false starts!), I saved the settings, ended the calibrations (each time) and disconnected from the computer. But then I had an issue and had to unplug both the HDMI cable that runs from the cable box to the TV, as well as the TV's power cord itself. Now I'm worried that the setting I set up for ISF Day and Night got lost or changed. The HDMI cord was out less than 5 mins and the power cord about the same. May I assume the settings I ran are still "there" and haven't changed or been re-set (the modes are now active after I replugged in the TV).You shouldn't lose ISFccc settings on power loss.

3. Oh boy, then I had an issue with my receiver -- and unplugged that overnight! (The TV remained plugged in as did the cable box and HDMI cable to the TV from the cable box). I assume that since the TV remained plugged in, there will be no effect on the ISF settings from unplugging the receiver for roughly 18-24 hours...nope :)

4. I'm going to go back on AVS forum and re-check -- but are there suggested settings for ISF-Auto (I didnt see any, and so didn' t set up)?See:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184

5. Do you know if this is right: D-Nice's settings for Day and Night have gamma settings for R, G, B from 10-90%; controlcal has gammas 1-9; I assumed that 1 was 10%, 2 was 20% .... etc. -- is that right?Yes

6. Finally, is the only way to check the ISF settings to go back in to controlcal and hit "refresh" on each of p1 and p2 to see if the settings are still the ones you want?LOAD P1
START CALIBRATION
SET INPUT
SELECT ISFccc MEMORY/MODE (i.e. ISF NIGHT MODE)
REFRESH (large REFRESH Button next to SEND ALL)

LOAD P2
REFRESH (large REFRESH Button next to SEND ALL)

NOTE: Since your Input and ISFccc Memory/Mode are already SET, you don't have to when you load P2 (or the reverse if you start with P2, then load P1).

:clap:

slumpey326

05-18-2009, 06:16 PM

nealh

05-19-2009, 06:50 PM

Turbe on anyone else

on controlcal, is this definitely correct:

PURE CINEMA
0 - Off
1 - Standard
2 - Advance
3 - Smooth

just wondering because when I look on the pro-111fd owner's manual, advance comes after smooth. I just want to make sure.

Pretty sure you got your answer elsewhere but it was stated Smooth was developed after Advanced so yes that is correct. Smooth=3

rhassle

06-11-2009, 09:00 PM

Hi Turbe:
I have been using CC for a long time now and it works fine. The only issue that I have seen is when I have my laptop set to 120dpi. The text is too large for the visible fields and the numbers are not visible which makes some of the settings harder to manage. You have to look very closely to see if you moved the sliders correctly or not. Otherwise it is great and has helped me immensely to get the most from my 111FD.

Cheers

Richard

earlaglin5

06-12-2009, 01:34 PM

Hay, I'm so new to this! when I download Control Cal i'm getting the Mitsubishi one. Can someone help me in the right direction for download for my Pioneer pro 111 fd? trying to get everything ready before my cables get here from Turbe.

Turbe

06-12-2009, 01:37 PM

Hi,

The Mits Profile is built-in. You need to load/open the Display Profile you need by clicking on the MENU BAR (top left on the main ControlCAL Window) FILE / OPEN.

-Turbe

earlaglin5

06-12-2009, 01:42 PM

ok! Maybe I should weight till my cables get here! I think I got it downloaded but I was trying to open it up to see what it would look like before plugging it up to the Pioneer

earlaglin5

06-12-2009, 06:18 PM

Hi,

The Mits Profile is built-in. You need to load/open the Display Profile you need by clicking on the MENU BAR (top left on the main ControlCAL Window) FILE / OPEN.

-Turbe

Hay, I had to reset my Dell to get all this to work! Got the drivers for the adapter but still ???? about the right controlcal. I downloaded the pioneer one and I also have a Mits one. did you say its the same. Once I put it up to my pioneer will I be ready. You might have to call me 859 621-8580
I know im about their. And were do it say I need a activation key? just got my stuff today.
thanks

sandman-x

07-03-2009, 10:23 PM

Hi all.

First, I want to apologize for this long post. This is my first on this forum.

I have the PRO-151FD. I've been reading a lot of info on this forum, downloaded all the necessary ControlCal related files and 9G Profiles and have all the documentation/forum tips saved and printed, ready to go. The only thing I haven't done yet is purchased a registration for ControlCal, which I plan on doing. Before I did that and before I used the software with my panel I have some questions, rather concerns.

Ok, so last month I purchased a "TV Calibration" service from Best Buy. Don't shoot me! :o Honestly I learned about ControlCal and all the great info on this forum after-the-fact and if I had learned about this sooner, I wouldn't have spent $300 for BB to calibrate my set. :(

Anyway, the BB Geek Squad guy used some $7,000 Sencore device and colorimeter attached to the TV and also a laptop with some kind of calibration software. The odd thing was that he hooked up to the HDMI port on the side panel of the TV, which I didn't think would provide access to the service menu that way. Essentially what he did was tweak several controls from the user menu of the TV (using the remote), but he used the software on the laptop to get the gray level set to an exact D65 and the colors to an ideal level (I watched him set the points until everything was right where it was supposed to be (I guess -- I'm still learning). He started in the "Movie" mode and he took a snapshot of what the TV was initially ouputting for everything with graphs, then after he finished (about 2 hours later) he showed the before and after results with graphs and things that looked very similar to CalMAN snapshots I've seen on the forum. I watched him through the whole process and he was very meticulous about getting the points on the graph to be exactly to where they were supposed to be.

In the end, he used some Monster ISF Calibration DVD (in my Blu-Ray player) to check everything and he had some reference video where he showed me the difference between the calibrated Movie mode and all of the other modes by pausing some images/videos that showed how the calibrated mode brought out more detail in the whites, blacks, etc. I could definitely see the difference and everything looked more natural/detailed than any of the other modes and The Dark Knight dark/bright scenes looked great! So I was pleased visually, but at the end I had asked "what about the isf-Night and isf-Day modes?" which I remembered reading about in the manual and thought those would give me even more "pop" while retaining proper detail/color. He said there isn't actually an isf setting I could select on my TV and it wasn't something they (Best Buy) could activate if there was. After I expressed some concern and mentioned that I thought they were supposed to activate those options, he went into the Game mode and copied all the user menu settings that he setup for Movie, but upped the Brightness a little more and called that the "Day" mode and suggested I use Movie mode for most of my viewing and Game mode during brighter daytime. That immediately raised a red flag (that he didn't think the set had isf modes) and I didn't have my manual handy at the time, but after he left I started searching online about those options and came across this wonderful forum and the ControlCal software, which I'm excited to try. I just feel a little gipped by Best Buy and get the impression now that they don't have the expertise/proper tools to give a complete calibration, which to me should include activating the isf modes. I spent good money on this set and the calibration, so I guess I expected more than what I got....although the results appeared to be accurate.

My concern is this. Since I spent $300 to have BB do the calibration and the results did look good, I'm concerned that I may screw up what they did for the worse if I use ControlCal. Will using the ControlCal software potentially mess up the gray level/D65 settings that were setup for the TV and potentially affect the settings for Movie mode? Is it really worth it for me to even try ControlCal now? I don't have a professional colorimeter such as i1Pro (I do have i1 Display2 though), so I don't have a good way to check my results other than eyeballing, which means I have to stick with using ControlCal and inputting recommended settings for my 151 panel from the users on the forums. I just don't know what that will do to the BB settings that were made. I'm still unclear as to whether the guy actually changed something internally in the TV to get the proper gray D65 level or if it was all changed via the user menu w/remote and just verified with the expensive equipment he had.

Is it possible that I'm still not seeing the best this TV can give me (i.e. by not activating the isf modes)? Are the isf modes going to show me the true potential of this set? If I don't want to screw up what BB did (I'm scared that I'll have wasted $300) what should I avoid when using ControlCal and what is safe to do? If all he did was change everything I could have done myself via the user menu, then that's easy to write down those settings for later (if I wanted to revert) back, but I'm just not sure exactly what he did I guess. :o

I have all my devices using HDMI going through my Denon AVR (Blu-Ray, XBOX 360, TimeWarner DVR) and to a single input # 4 on my TV.

Like I said above, I've done a lot of research and reading on this forum and think I have all I need to know to setup and use the software and avoid some of the common mistakes, but I'm just not clear on whether isf-Night/Day mode changes via ControlCal will impact any settings BB changed internally to accurately set D65 levels and such. I guess I still have more to learn. ;)

Thank you for your time! :)

Turbe

07-03-2009, 11:33 PM

My concern is this. Since I spent $300 to have BB do the calibration and the results did look good, I'm concerned that I may screw up what they did for the worse if I use ControlCal. Will using the ControlCal software potentially mess up the gray level/D65 settings that were setup for the TV and potentially affect the settings for Movie mode? Is it really worth it for me to even try ControlCal now? I don't have a professional colorimeter such as i1Pro (I do have i1 Display2 though), so I don't have a good way to check my results other than eyeballing, which means I have to stick with using ControlCal and inputting recommended settings for my 151 panel from the users on the forums. I just don't know what that will do to the BB settings that were made. I'm still unclear as to whether the guy actually changed something internally in the TV to get the proper gray D65 level or if it was all changed via the user menu w/remote and just verified with the expensive equipment he had.

Hi :hiya:

Welcome to CalibrationForums.com :D

The ISFccc Interface (3 memories Per Input, isf Night, isf Day and isf Auto) are not only independent of the standard AV Selections (i.e. Pure) but they are independent of the other ISFccc memories (including others on the same Input).

If I was you, I would write down all settings for your Standard AV Selections (at least the ones BB Calibrated).

Is it possible that I'm still not seeing the best this TV can give me (i.e. by not activating the isf modes)? Are the isf modes going to show me the true potential of this set?

Read what others have Posted :)

ControlCAL Reviews & Testimonials (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97)

Pioneer Owner's Calibration Reports (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92)

:thumbsup:

.

sandman-x

07-04-2009, 09:59 AM

Hey thanks Turbe! :cool:

I took a look at those links (another couple hours of reading bliss ;)). Sounds like it will be worth it for me to give the isf modes a shot then. I'm really curious to see what the difference will be for me, albeit without a tool to measure the results for accuracy :(

So if I understand what you're saying then, in a nutshell the grayscale that (or D65 is maybe the proper term?) and color settings, etc that Best Buy calibrated for "Movie" mode will be unaffected by whatever I do with using ControlCal for the isf modes right? In other words, I can activate and tweak isf Night, Day, and Auto to my heart's desire (within reason of course) and no matter what the final results are, I can still go back to "Movie" mode and see the results/settings that BB calibrated (I will write them down just in case)? Then if I want to see what I setup with ControlCal, I can switch to one of the isf modes to compare? So I won't lose my calibrated Movie mode and will in effect have an additional 3 modes for my single TV input.

I guess I was concerned that maybe BB tweaked the grayscale to an accurate D65 at a global level in the set and if I used ControlCal to tweak isf modes, it would affect the global grayscale, thereby impacting all modes for the worst. Do you think maybe what BB did was just simply set all the RGB Color and other settings via the normal TV menu that any user can tweak? Like I said they only hooked up to the HDMI port on the side panel with (I think) the Sencore device and they used whatever software they had on the laptop to get exact luminance, RGB, grayscale, etc readings while he used the remote to go through the menu settings (such as Pro Adjust for Movie mode). Or is it possible that he could have adjusted something within the TV (like a service menu level setting) that I wouldn't have had access to myself? Just curious, because I'm still not 100% sure exactly what he did. If all he did was tweak the user menu values that I could do myself, but of course tweaking until he got accurate readings for D65 etc, then I'm not as concerned, since I could easily use the remote to change those settings back to what he set.

Just a couple more questions (sorry for the million questions btw :o)

With ControlCal, am I able to capture and save the default isf mode settings (or revert to default) if I really messed something up? Is it possible to really mess something up and will it only be messed up for whatever mode I'm playing with (i.e. isf Night or isf Day or Auto)? I see in the "Calibration Procedure Flow" steps (#5) where it reads:

"_5) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display."

So does that mean, say I tweak isf Day a bunch, save it/End Calibration. Then if I later come back to it and want to tweak the settings some more just to play around, can I first do that REFRESH step to get the settings I previously configured and save those somehow (to a file or something) if I liked those settings? In case I don't like the new settings and want to revert back to what I had previously or even revert to the factory default for isf Day would be nice. Just wondering if that was possible?

Also, would ControlCal allow me access to REFRESH and retrieve the current settings for the non-isf modes, such as Movie, Game, Pure, etc.? Or does it only work for isf modes?

Thanks for the help!

Turbe

07-04-2009, 11:51 AM

So if I understand what you're saying then, in a nutshell the grayscale that (or D65 is maybe the proper term?) and color settings, etc that Best Buy calibrated for "Movie" mode will be unaffected by whatever I do with using ControlCal for the isf modes right? In other words, I can activate and tweak isf Night, Day, and Auto to my heart's desire (within reason of course) and no matter what the final results are, I can still go back to "Movie" mode and see the results/settings that BB calibrated (I will write them down just in case)? Then if I want to see what I setup with ControlCal, I can switch to one of the isf modes to compare? So I won't lose my calibrated Movie mode and will in effect have an additional 3 modes for my single TV input.

Yes :thumbup:

So does that mean, say I tweak isf Day a bunch, save it/End Calibration. Then if I later come back to it and want to tweak the settings some more just to play around, can I first do that REFRESH step to get the settings I previously configured and save those somehow (to a file or something) if I liked those settings? In case I don't like the new settings and want to revert back to what I had previously or even revert to the factory default for isf Day would be nice. Just wondering if that was possible?

Yes

Also, would ControlCal allow me access to REFRESH and retrieve the current settings for the non-isf modes, such as Movie, Game, Pure, etc.?

No, not with the PRO-111FD / PRO-151FD (the 9G Monitors can).

sandman-x

07-05-2009, 11:01 AM

That's excellent! I can't wait to try the software out. :clap:

Thanks again Turbe! :thumbsup:

TheMessiah

07-06-2009, 11:00 AM

It's extremely frustrating...
The first time I tried it out, I had the wrong cable.
Now I bought myself a straight through and I still get an "Pioneer C3 Calibration Mode was not enabled" Error...
I don't know how many cables I have to try out :(

Turbe

07-06-2009, 11:22 AM

This is why the USB Serial Adapter/Cable bundle is offered here.. Even cables ordered as straight through are actually not many times. Then there is the adapter/driver issues. There's very little room on this hardware but it needed to be done for the convenience.

TheMessiah

07-06-2009, 11:31 AM

Believe me, if I had known how annoying it would be to find a proper cable, I would have ordered the bundle. ;)

tony22

07-09-2009, 03:31 PM

Turbe, I was able to succesfully get into C3 Cal Mode and set up Page 2 of Input 5 HDMI for both ISF Day and Night. I'll be doing Page 1 later today after I've had the display on for a bit and the metter warmed up. But when I went into that input and checked the A/V selection I didn not see any ISF modes. I followed the directions and did a End Calibration, waited for the output showing success. Do I have to do a full Page 1 + 2 before they become active?

Turbe

07-09-2009, 06:26 PM

Did you press the SAVE Button?

You can adjust the Controls without committing the settings upon exit (not using SAVE). :)

tony22

07-09-2009, 07:38 PM

Duh, yeah. I figured that out about 15 minutes after I posted my idiot observation. :o

Maybe an "Are you sure you wish to exit without saving?" popup would be good for boneheads like me! ;)

sid5

09-04-2009, 03:19 AM

Hi Turbe,

Just wanted to thank you for your help, guidance and patience! I would go mad if I had to explain how to set up ControlCal for every newbie like me! I was worried about the complexities involving calibration especially as I can be colour blind at times but the software is easy to use and the ISF modes make a noticeable difference. I had a real sense of achievement yesterday which doubled my viewing pleasure!!

Thanks again
Sid

renmeister

10-30-2009, 01:53 PM

I have updated Posts #2 - #4 on Page 1 (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64) of this Thread (including the Input/Tuner Table for the 9G's), please do take the time Read these Posts and feel free to ask if you have any questions.

-Turbe

Turbe have you had any experience with 9G Pioneer panels with blotchy blacks? I purchased 2 Pro151FD's one is perfectly black during all functions of handshakes and BD loading. The second Pro-151FD has a blotchy black cloud in the center of the screen during BD load times or any time switching sources. Is this a defective panel? I have herd of others returning there Pioneers and others keeping them and after 600+ hours the blotches get better. Hmm! Not to sure about things getting better. I'm skeptical.:please: If you know of or know of a post other then AVS I could use the help. Thanks Renmeister

Turbe

10-30-2009, 01:55 PM

Yes, it gets better from what I've seen and others (it's common)

petmic10

11-04-2009, 07:34 AM

Turbe have you had any experience with 9G Pioneer panels with blotchy blacks? I purchased 2 Pro151FD's one is perfectly black during all functions of handshakes and BD loading. The second Pro-151FD has a blotchy black cloud in the center of the screen during BD load times or any time switching sources. Is this a defective panel? I have herd of others returning there Pioneers and others keeping them and after 600+ hours the blotches get better. Hmm! Not to sure about things getting better. I'm skeptical.:please: If you know of or know of a post other then AVS I could use the help. Thanks Renmeister

I had the same issue you are having and after about a 1000 hours
of use I now have a completely uniform black screen.:thumbsup:

It evens out, at least for me it did.:)

Mike JL

11-15-2009, 09:25 AM

I ran the ControlCal software on my PRO-151FD last night. I unlocked the ISF-Day and ISF-Night modes and used the D-Nice settings as a first step.

Installing the software, attaching the cable and actually running the software were all very straightforward. I read a lot of posts on this forum and I followed Turbe's emailed instructions very closely before I started.

As part of the preparations, I printed the ControlCal Calibration worksheet and had the desired values filled in and ready for input.

The only slightly confusing part was in inputting the Color Mgmt values. 'Refresh' did not cause the current numerical values to show on the screen, although the sliders were positioned correctly for each. Also, the six individual lines were not identified as to which was which. They were all labeled the same. I took it on faith that they were listed in the same order as the worksheet. I input each value in the box beside each line and did see the sliders change position when I hit 'Send' on each, so I know I changed something. I trust this was done correctly.

Again, following Turbe's instructions, I successfully saved the changed values and ended the calibration without incident. I was even able to check the panel hours (229) quickly and easily,

The results were very good. The ISF-Day mode is slightly, but noticeably, better than what I had been able to achieve with Spears & Munsil, which was better than what I was able to get with DVE's HD Basics.

I was actually pretty happy with the S & M results (they should consider changing to M & S) before I started, so I was very pleased to see the improvement. The picture is a little brighter, the skin tones are a little more natural and the 'show-off' scenes - Planet Earth, Baraka, etc. - are just a little more spectacular.

I don't typically watch TV in a darkened room, so the ISF-Night mode is not one I will use often. The picture has a little less 'impact' in this mode, which I assume is by design. I may decide to use it as intended (dark room) and see what happens.

As I said, I used the D-Nice settings as a starting point. And they may be the ending point, since I know nothing about calibrating except what I've read here, and they do produce a great picture. Nevertheless, I may tweak these setting from time-to-time to see what changes, just out of curiousity.

I am still thinking about getting a professional calibration at some point down the road, but this is no doubt a great stop-gap procedure to use for these first several months.

If anyone is out there thinking about doing this, but is not quite decided, I'll just say don't be intimidated by the procedure. If you print and follow the step-by-step instructions, you will be successful.

I can't say if the improvement you may get will be worthwhile or not, but it was for me. And it was really kind of fun.

Turbe

11-15-2009, 10:51 AM

The only slightly confusing part was in inputting the Color Mgmt values. 'Refresh' did not cause the current numerical values to show on the screen, although the sliders were positioned correctly for each. Also, the six individual lines were not identified as to which was which. They were all labeled the same. I took it on faith that they were listed in the same order as the worksheet. I input each value in the box beside each line and did see the sliders change position when I hit 'Send' on each, so I know I changed something. I trust this was done correctly.

:hiya:

I bet your Windows DPI setting is not set to Normal 96dpi (Display Settings/Advance/General) or you may be using larger fonts. For more info, see HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79).

but it was for me. And it was really kind of fun.

Thanks for taking time to report, I really appreciate it :thumbsup:

Mike JL

11-15-2009, 05:22 PM

:hiya:

I bet your Windows DPI setting is not set to Normal 96dpi (Display Settings/Advance/General) or you may be using larger fonts. For more info, see HERE (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79).

Turbe,

You are correct - the dpi setting is 120 on the laptop. I'll know to change it to 96 the next time I run ControlCal.

BTW - After watching many shows, some football and a little NASCAR today, I have to say that the picture on the 151 is more impressive than I had thought earlier. It really has a lot more "Wow" factor than it had before, even on regular TV fare.

Very impressive results!

Turbe

11-16-2009, 12:49 AM

It really has a lot more "Wow" factor than it had before, even on regular TV fare.

Very impressive results!
:thumbsup:

BUYLONGTERM

11-18-2009, 06:44 PM

Man, this is extremely frustrating. I have attach all the cables, I configured the com ports, I run the software and the console window comes up, however I cannot turn the tv on or if I hit start calibration, I get NO COMMUNICATION FROM DISPLAY. The console window tells me the commands are sent? HELP

Turbe

11-18-2009, 07:39 PM

BUYLONGTERM

11-18-2009, 09:31 PM

Most likely the wrong Serial Cable type (very common), could also be the USB Serial Adapter (if you are using one) or Serial Port issue...

Last year, so many were having issues that I decided to offer the Adapter/Cable and most of the problems went away... $28 for both shipped to US Addresses.

More info (and the issues others had until they took my advice):

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29

-Turbe

I don't believe it's a wrong cable since a RS232 is pretty much a standard cable. I don't think it's a COM port issue because if I switch ports with the software, It will not open up the console window. Once I change them to match the correct port, I get no error message until I try to calibrate the tv. It says I have the correct drivers for the adapter, but then again, I am using windows 7 and I used a Windows Vista driver (pretty much the same operating system) and all the troubleshooting I've done says it's working properly. I have no problem buying the correct hardware from you, But I need to make sure it definitely works with windows 7. Worst case scenario is I can build another laptop with windows XP. If I pay you first thing in the morning, (and I pay for expedited shipping. I have no patience) how long until you can ship the adapter/cable?

Thanks for all your help!

BLT

Turbe

11-18-2009, 10:34 PM

I don't believe it's a wrong cable since a RS232 is pretty much a standard cable.

:lesson:
Ahh, that is where you are incorrect. There are Null Modem configured serial cables (now the most common) and straight-through configured serial cables (can be hard to find).

Please read the first Thread (read all the Posts in that Thread) I linked above and you shall see others that originally didn't trust what I posted about serial cables.. but, in the end.. :oops:

You need a multi-meter to check since it's very rare that serial cables are labeled.

You must be able to Power the Display On and Off with the Buttons in ControlCAL's Display Profile first.....

:D

It would ship the same day if you sent in the morning... we ship them USPS Priority Mail. :thumbsup:

I've had one of my Users verify the Vista Drivers work on Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit.

Windows 7 Pro 64bit using the Vista 32bit drivers and controlcal works perfectly fine. =)

BUYLONGTERM

11-19-2009, 10:13 AM

:lesson:
Ahh, that is where you are incorrect. There are Null Modem configured serial cables (now the most common) and straight-through configured serial cables (can be hard to find).

Please read the first Thread (read all the Posts in that Thread) I linked above and you shall see others that originally didn't trust what I posted about serial cables.. but, in the end.. :oops:

You need a multi-meter to check since it's very rare that serial cables are labeled.

You must be able to Power the Display On and Off with the Buttons in ControlCAL's Display Profile first.....

:D

It would ship the same day if you sent in the morning... we ship them USPS Priority Mail. :thumbsup:

I've had one of my Users verify the Vista Drivers work on Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit.

Great. I already sent payment! Thank you. If it doesnt work with Windows 7, I can also use Windows XP.

Thanks!

BLT

DeBo

11-23-2009, 09:29 AM

Works with Windows 7 Pro and Windows 7 Home!

borchgrevink

11-25-2009, 06:29 AM

Maybe stupid question, but is the settings in the profiles (day/night) for my TV "out-of-the-box" ready to be transfered to my TV and are they better than "Movie mode" on my LX5090?

Turbe

11-25-2009, 08:48 AM

borchgrevink

11-25-2009, 09:06 AM

For Settings for specific Pioneer Models, see: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49

You use ControlCAL to adjust the Controls, you wouldn't want to use the default settings in ControlCAL's Profiles.. use the link above to find them for your Model.

Yes, but if I download the profile for my LX5090, do I adjust them (according to what?) or only transfer these settings?

Turbe

11-25-2009, 09:49 AM

borchgrevink

11-25-2009, 10:05 AM

Use each Control's Slider (on the Profile) to change the setting (use the link above to find these Settings for your Model).

You may want to download the ControlCAL User's guide, found Here (http://host-a.net/turbe/ControlCAL_Users_Guide_Pioneer_9G_ISF_Profiles.pdf )

OK, thanks. But, there seems to be different views to whether the is day/night is any better than "movie mode". What do you guys think?

Turbe

11-25-2009, 10:12 AM

No.

Many enjoy using Settings from others, but it's best to do a Proper Calibration, either DIY Calibration (you need to buy a meter) or hire a Professional Calibrator.

borchgrevink

12-09-2009, 02:04 AM

No.

Many enjoy using Settings from others, but it's best to do a Proper Calibration, either DIY Calibration (you need to buy a meter) or hire a Professional Calibrator.

OK, thanks. Sorry again for "stupid" question, but where do I find the different settings for my model (LX5090), not the profile, but settings people recommend?

Turbe

12-09-2009, 10:23 PM

where do I find the different settings for my model (LX5090), not the profile, but settings people recommend?

Search in here: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49

... but, here's one: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119

:thumbsup:

ibre34

12-26-2009, 10:56 AM

I don't understand why the 9 gamma point have 3 controls each (RGB).

What are the effect of putting R : 0, G : -1, B : 1 let say in gamma point 3 instead R : 1, G : 1, B : 1 in the same gamma point 3 and how can I measure that using Calman????

Turbe

12-26-2009, 12:25 PM

Set all 3 Channels (RGB) to the same value for a given Gamma Point. It's okay to have different Gamma Points at different values.

One of the standard CalMAN workspaces for Grayscale will have the Gamma info as well.

ibre34

12-26-2009, 02:08 PM

In that case it would be easy if you program only one slide for each gamma point. You will need to enter only 9 values instead of 27

Turbe

12-26-2009, 02:16 PM

True, but that is a recommended by Pioneer Gurus, not everyone follows it (there are many DIYer's that like to do what you originally posted).

Since you have your own gear, do several calibration sessions changing each channel's value to something different (as needed) vs keeping them all the same for each Gamma Point. :D

-Turbe

ibre34

12-26-2009, 03:19 PM

I'll do it. I need more practice. My first calibration attempt did't work out very well... LOL

Turbe

12-26-2009, 04:57 PM

ibre34

12-26-2009, 06:11 PM

Any tips for the CMS calibration? Should I start calibrating primaries or secondaries?

Turbe

12-26-2009, 07:16 PM

First do sessions without adjusting CMS (get a good grasp getting your Grayscale and Gamma down).

Once you get to adjust the CMS controls, here's really the only Tip you will see.... only adjust each CMS Control 1-2 clicks in any direction.

trial and error :D

Turbe

12-27-2009, 07:58 PM

:hiya: ibre34,

Why don't you start a new Thread here: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

Start posting your CalMAN Reports and ISFccc Settings for some calibration sessions.. we can see your progress, provide tips/suggestions etc....

Once you get a final set of ISFccc settings, you can create a Thread here:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49

:thumbsup:

ibre34

12-28-2009, 12:06 PM

If you promise don't laugh at me... :)

I need a more accurate meter any way. With the Spider 3 I am getting different readings every time.

venkatesh_m

01-01-2010, 04:28 AM

Hi Shawn,

Finally got round to installing my 600M. Wanted to let u know that the profiles u provided work fine for the asian region krps.

Have not saved the day and night profiles as yet as there are some uniformity problems with the monitor that I am hoping Pioneer replaces.

Ciao and Happy New Year.

orbo33

01-03-2010, 11:46 AM

Hi Turbe :hiya: I finally got to spend time to use controlcal and tweak the 3 isf mode of my kuro.
What can say ... thanks for giving me, and everybody else who use your program, the chance to calibrate the Pioneer :thumbsup:
I have now an almost perfect picture, 'cause I only used the dvd tests to tweak the D-nice isf settings for my set... but I've gained much more contrast and now the movie seems to pop up out of the screen , with really beatiful and natural colors :clap:

I know I'm at 90%, without a colorimeter, but ... who knows for the future ...

Have a nice 2010.

Bye, Marco ... here I am after calibration ::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Turbe

01-03-2010, 11:59 AM

who knows for the future ...

:thumbup:

... maybe a meter in your future?? :eek:

:thumbsup:

orbo33

01-04-2010, 01:25 AM

:thumbup:

... maybe a meter in your future?? :eek:

:thumbsup:

That's what I was thinking of..... I need to get more confident first. :D

Ciao, Marco

PS: I calibrated ISF N, ISF D and then ISF Auto. While calibrating the Auto mode, the controlcal program didn't allow me to enter the code 0 (zero) for the option zoom so to set dot by dot like the other 2 modes.
It kept writing me ERR on the Pioneer screen and error in red in the program's window...... so I set code 2 for full as the zoom mode ...

Pretty weird, don't you think ? :uhuh:

Turbe

01-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Not really, were you Inputing a 1080 signal during the time you were adjusting isf Auto?

Also, remember, Screen Size/Aspect is not saved, you can change it at anytime (for any ISFccc memory and AV Selection) at any time and it is also Input Signal sensitive.

orbo33

01-04-2010, 10:25 AM

Not really, were you Inputing a 1080 signal during the time you were adjusting isf Auto?....

All the way trough, via the dvdo Edge 1080p@50
In practice it works fine and when I switch isf auto , the aspect ratio stays at dot by dot anyway..... but was just to report it to you... maybe it's a minor bug.

Ciao, Marco

orbo33

01-12-2010, 08:59 AM

:thumbup:

... maybe a meter in your future?? :eek:

:thumbsup:

Hi Turbe, which economic meter do you think would be better for my krp 500?
I can't spend too much :nono:

Ciao, Marco

Turbe

01-12-2010, 10:31 AM

We recommend the Chroma 5 and I1 Pro with CalMAN... The ColorMunki Photo/Design is another (with CalMAN) - The ColorMunki is $200 off right.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/announcement.php?f=12&a=11

Meter info:

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=496

.

Doug Blackburn

04-07-2010, 03:40 AM

I've calibrated quite a few Elite Kuros and have always been able to get gamma to be about 2.3 using ISF-Night mode without any struggles.

The last Elite PRO-151 I did ended up with gamma curve that averaged about 1.9 (was closer to 1.8 for 10%-40% and 2.0 from 60%-90%). No adjustments I made in ControlCAL would improve it.

Why is there no gamma slider in ControlCAL for the Elites?

Why are there controls called "Gamma Point" when they don't control luminance at all (at least they don't control luminance on this PRO-151)? They appear to work as 10%-90% fine-tune grayscale controls (like cuts/gains, but just for 1 grayscale step - Gamma point 1 adjusts the 10% step, gamma point 2 adjusts the 20% step, etc.). Changing these by moving all 3 colors lower, trying to get less luminance at a specific step, did nothing - luminance of the step in question did not change. But moving red to -1 and Blue to +1 does indeed reduce the amount of red and increase the amount of blue at whatever grayscale step you pick (1 - 9 = 10%-90%)

Any ideas why the ISF gamma on this particular 151 is so much lower than others I've calibrated? Pure mode achieves 2.3 gamma with no problem. ISF-Day gamma is even lower (numerically), around 1.7.

Peak White Level (changing topics):
I couldn't get more than 37 fL from ISF-Day mode before I started clipping green and blue somewhere between 90% and 100% (37 fL was what I got with ISF-Day Contrast set to 39 - set ISF-Day contrast to 40 and the fL actually goes down instead of up, and blue and green cannot achieve the same luminance level as red (until you step down to a Contrast setting of 39). This was one time I wanted to have a brighter ISF-Day mode (west-facing windows in this room) and I couldn't get more than 37 fL (compared to 27 fL max. in Pure mode with the same Contrast setting of 39 - and in Pure mode a setting of 40 did the same thing... less bright 100% white level and blue and green could not match red luminance).