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Unread 10-05-2008, 02:58 PM   #1
Turbe
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Default Understanding the Pioneer 9G ISFccc Interface

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice
The ISFccc modes on the 9G Elites will arguably produce the most pleasing picture post calibration....if they are setup properly. None of the other modes on the 9G Elites will compare... even if 2D measurements say they are equal. Its built into their templates and to understand why, one would need to start paying attention to 3D measurements
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942
I understand that once I have my 151 calibrated with the ISF a/v modes that I cannot change them w/o controlCal; but will I still be able to access them form my remote control like I would any of the other a/v modes. Another words will I be able to switch to optimum or movie and than switch back to ISF day or ISF night? Sorry if this seems to be a stupid question.
Thanks,
mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942
The way I see it just having these 3 additional a/v mode options which can be individually calibrated for all of your inputs (Blu-ray, Satellite, etc.) makes it worth while. So I would be content if it would be just as good as a calibration using the Pure user a/v mode. You would still have all these other a/v modes (optimum, performance, etc.) to choose from for added vibrancy when watching sports or whatever. If by chance you do get more detail, more depth and better colors with more punch than all the better. Seems like a best of both world's scenario. Just my opinion.
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvnhateSony
This ones easy, YES. The ISF modes will just simply be added to your selection of existing A/V modes so you can switch it up as easily as you do now.
"So I would be content if it would be just as good as a calibration using the Pure user a/v mode. You would still have all these other a/v modes (optimum, performance, etc.) to choose from for added vibrancy when watching sports or whatever."

I've always said the main benefit is that fact that you add additional memories Per Input (the Per Input is key).

Understanding the Pioneer ISFccc Interface:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14462861
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14440655
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post14440343
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5575
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14750559

ISFccc vs Pure Info and Reports:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice
That is correct. Specifically the gamma controls. ISFccc on the Elites are the only modes that allow you to have either a 2.0,2.1,2.2,2.3,2.4, or 2.5 ruler flat gamma curve. You cannot do that in any other mode on the Elites.

You also cannot go beyond 41fL of peak light output on any other A/V and retail a ruler flat grayscale and gamma.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14691872







Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice
  • The ability to go beyond 41fL of peak brightness without clipping whites or destroying gamma.
  • Much more felxibilty with the gamma
  • Better low end grayscale
  • Greater picture depth because of the above
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14695249


Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE
Does mean above 40ftl on a 151? If that is the case I will eat crow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750
You can achieve above 40 ft lamberts on a 151 without clipping or discoloration. Got 42 ftl to be exact. Here's a link to grayscale and gamma / luminance charts for a 151FD I just did yesterday. This is ISF Day mode readings.

Pioneer PRO-151FD ISFccc Day
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5609

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy
Under what circumstances would you need that much brightness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750
In a well lit room.
Plus consider that you should be shooting for maximum dynamic range as long as there is no clipping, discoloration (color shift) and eye fatigue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice
How far could you push the contrast setting in one of the ISF modes before you saw clipping or discoloration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750
For the ambient lighting of the room during the day, the 42 ftl worked out great. Never did push the set to the limit of clipping so can't be sure how far beyond 42 ftl I could have gone. I hit 42ftl and for the given environment figured that was enough. I do wish I had one of these on hand so I could play and evaluate it some more. I do have to say though that once calibrated the set looked awesome. I was very happy with the results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice
So far, I've seen 53 fL without any major issues with the grayscale or discoloration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE
Jeff is going to be doing a few before he gets to me. If he can verify the improvements of isfccc, especially the ability to go higher then 30ftl, then its a no brainer I will go with isfccc, one for day and one for night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750
Myself & D-Nice have already showed the 151FD will exceed 30 ftl in ISFccc mode. But feel free to get confirmation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE
Would running a 151 at 42ftl increase the possibility of image retention?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe
I just got off the phone with Kevin Miller... he did his first 9G Elite using the ISFccc Interface (and ControlCAL ) today.

Model was the PRO-151FD

for ISF Night: 35 fL
for ISF Day: 51 fL with no clipping or other issues

I am allowed to quote him (he will eventually post on his Blog):
He now sees this added dynamic range as one of the benefits for the 9G's ISFccc Interface.

He did find that the Pioneer BDF-05FD BR Player was clipping White (out of the box), he had to turn down Contrast one click (source problem).


Add one of the "Big Guns" who see the benefit of the 9G ISFccc Interface over Pure.

http://www.imagingscience.com/personnel.htm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post14703894
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Correct, this is one of my VIP customers who also called me to say how terrific his panel looks after Kevin Miller's ISFccc Interface over Pure calibration. Pioneer, Miller, ISFccc Interface over Pure ControlCAL software and ValueElectronics make a unbeatable combination.

Our industry has has leap frogged like a bull frog on steroids and we're all in for the ride.

-Robert
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5676

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvnhateSony
The ISF modes over Pure gave me a punchier picture, added detail, added depth, added shadow detail, perfect colors and a big ol' to top it off. It's essentially Pure mode on steriods if you will. Anyway I really cant say enough about it and I cant say enough about the great D-Nice.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5336

Quote:
Originally Posted by darita
Just had my 151 calibrated in ISFccc modes by David Abrams. Great guy. I had previously had the set calibrated in Pure mode. Once David was done, I could immediately see the difference. In a direct comparison, ISFNight has the pop that I was hoping to see. I guess the 45 ftL in ISF mode helps achieve that. To my untrained eye, I can see a difference in contrast, detail and brightness. The blacks are blacker without losing detail and the whites are whiter without clipping. The picture looks crisper, but not unnatural. To me, Pure mode had a washed out look. So far, I'm happy with what I see. Now all I have to do is find the time to sit down and really watch this thing.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6087

Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post
My overall impression is that the calibrated ISF Day with the brightness level set at 37fl did result in more accurate coloring and more visible detail especially when looking at facial tones. There was also more vibrancy or pop to the over all picture. I would not say it was dramatic but noticeably a little brighter when compared to the Pure mode; I would say about a third of the way between Pure & Performance mode.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6967

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross
I've just begun using this great software and as D-Nice has said in the past, once you go ISFccc mode, you'll never go back to Pure mode.

Pure almost looks drab by comparison and it reminds me of what plasma fans have so often heard from some on this forum...plasmas have dirty whites. Although I don't agree, anyone that feels that way should take a look at ControlCal and what the ISFccc mode has to offer. If you want brighter whites than this, you better grab your sunglasses.

At the same settings as Pure mode, the ISFccc mode is significantly 'punchier', yet I can see no crushing of whites or blacks when using it...at least visually.

But I think you really need to be careful using this mode if you don't have sufficient hours on your panel. The fact that the panel is driven harder makes the issue of break-in that much more important.

As I said, I just began using ControlCal and am only just beginning to explore it's features. A big thanks to Turbe for some lame issues I had at the beginning. It's amazing how much you learn if you actually READ the instructions!

BTW, I am using a USB>Serial adapter.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1575

Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE
Cant wait, 42ftl here I come. Thanks D-nice and Turbe for showing me the light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE
Jeff came and calibrated my 151 yesterday

~

Long story short, you can count me on the users who prefer isf over pure.

How to view the ISFccc Information

NOTE: Your Calibrator can customize this information


AV Selection showing isf Day

Last edited by Turbe; 05-30-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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Unread 10-10-2008, 05:26 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by turbe
I just got off the phone with Kevin Miller... he did his first 9G Elite using the ISFccc Interface (and ControlCAL ) today.

Model was the PRO-151FD

for ISF Night: 35 fL
for ISF Day: 51 fL with no clipping or other issues

I am allowed to quote him (he will eventually post on his Blog):
He now sees this added dynamic range as one of the benefits for the 9G's ISFccc Interface.

He did find that the Pioneer BDF-05FD BR Player was clipping White (out of the box), he had to turn down Contrast one click (source problem).


Add one of the "Big Guns" who see the benefit of the 9G ISFccc Interface over Pure.

http://www.imagingscience.com/personnel.htm
************************************************** ******

Turbe,
When you quoted Kevin saying "He did find that the Pioneer BDF-05FD BR Player was clipping White (out of the box), he had to turn down Contrast one click (source problem)."
Turn down contrast one click. Where did he turn down the contrast ? In the 05 manual setting bright or in the 9G elite contrast.
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Unread 12-29-2008, 02:39 PM   #3
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more:
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplemath
I am all set up now for isf day/night for inputs 5,6,7 on the 151. It doesn't seem so much brighter, yet the pop factor is there. It is daytime right now, and the isf day looks the better than pure....so all is well.

It seems my issues were with a driver, and maybe a com port mismatch between the usb to serial cable, and the com port selected on control cal.

Thanks for the pointers over the last day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplemath
For anyone that wants to quantify the value of unlocking the isf's.

I broke in my 151 with the colours for maybe 50 hours, and watched tv for 2 weeks with this 50 hours of breakin between viewing. On day 1 I put the dnice settings in for sport for thumb drive breakin, and pure for viewing. Pure looked good right from the get go vs the original pure.

isf's with my half assed breakin is VERY GOOD. My wife can tell in an a,b test of the same show between pure, and day mode. ISF settings are brighter, more 3d, unbelieveable texture, detail. I would call it a 20% better picture....AND I am being very analytical in this 20% value. Now not all sets may react the same, but I am 100% impressed, and if I had known just how good this was going to look (like if it were a trial, and I had to pay for a full time unlock...I'd put the value that I would pay post trial at 200 dollar ish.)

for 25 bucks, plus 50 for the cables....go ahead, then be amazed that your unbelieveable tv just got 20% better. the realism is...well i am speechless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole
Alright, David Abrams finished my calibration about 3 hours ago ...

and all I can say is, WOW! ...

Calibration was done in ISF-Night mode.

Even my (very skeptical) wife said there was noticeable differences!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso
UMR traveled to CA to see all of his gadget loving clients and was able to squeeze me and my PDP-111FD, SC-07 and BDP-05 into the mix on 1/24. He spent about 5 and 1/2 hours here and provided lots of helpful tips on my system.


1) the panel is much brighter:
- with ISF Day and (surprisingly) ISF Night (powersave disabled),
- it's almost XBR LCD like it's so much more impressive now;
2) the colors Pop like never before:

Last edited by Turbe; 01-25-2009 at 07:25 PM.
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Unread 01-11-2009, 04:48 AM   #4
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Hi guys,

I am Chadmak09 from the AVS forums.
Some of you may already know me.

Well,
I just got ControlCal and Now I am good to GO!

I now have my ISF mode (just ISF-Day so far) activated and have entered D-nices reference settings.

This was a very inexpensive and easy task!

Controlcal makes it extremely easy and Turbes step-by-step instructions for the 9G Elites are simple!

To be honest, I was cautious about doing it and was worried about messing something up.
But after doing it I realize I had no reason to worry. Actually it was pretty FUN!
This was very easy.

I started up ControlCal and entered D-nices settings per Turbes step-by-step instructions and BAM!
There were the ISF A/V modes in my A/V selections right there with Pure,optimum,etc.

Just like This:



I compared my Pure mode (which was using D-nices reference color settings and I used Test patterns on DVE disk to calibrate my contrast,brightness,etc.) to the ISF-Day mode (with all of D-Nices reference ControlCal settings), And I definitly notice more "pop". It seems to look more accurate and looks to have increased the overall brightness a bit.

I am just getting started here, so I am sure I haven't seen everything that ControlCal can do for my Pro-151FD. But so far I am already seeing the benefits.

Last edited by kuroman09; 01-11-2009 at 12:20 PM.
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Unread 01-11-2009, 05:18 PM   #5
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Hi chad,

Ok that is a good start. Now what you need is CalMAN, X-Rite EyeOne Pro.

Then you really will have a eye popping display.
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Unread 02-15-2009, 02:28 PM   #6
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Pictures of Pure, isf Night and isf Day (all Calibrated by Eliab):

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450
I had Eliab of Avical over earlier today to calibrate my PRO-111FD. I had him out before to calibrate my Samsung DLP, and I couldn't wait for him to arrive and go to work on the Kuro.

Pre-calibration the display was easily the best looking I've ever seen at factory settings. However, the picture was definitely too warm and too green. While D-Nice's settings certainly helped, I felt that I was still missing the accuracy and, to a certain extent, the sort of natural richness of the calibrated DLP.

Enter Eliab. He set things up as follows:

Pure mode for very dim to pitch-black conditions
ISF Night for moderate lighting
ISF Day for extreme lighting
Movie mode for B&W materal

The results are absolutely outstanding. I've now acheived the accuracy and richness that had been missing before. Combined with the amazing contrast ratio, level of detail and depth of the Kuro, I can scarcely imagine a better picture at this size.

I also find that each mode works as advertised. In low light to lights-out conditions, Pure mode performs best.

Once the lights go on, ISF Night more than makes up for the difference. It provides that extra pop that cuts through the brighter environment. I also find that I prefer it for gaming.

ISF Day came out at over 45ftL even with Powersave Mode 2 engaged, and I actually feel that it's almost too bright, even with all of the lights turned on. I imagine I'll use it only rarely for especially sunny days.

Anyway, I've been trying to run through my favorite movie scenes, but it's slow going. I'm having a difficult time tearing myself away from how good everything looks, so moving on to the next scene isn't easy.

All in all, as great as the display is out of the box and with minor tweaks, a pro-calibration takes it to another level. It almost feels like a light veil was lifted off of the screen and I'm now seeing everything with crystal clear, accurate clarity. If you're on the fence about getting it done yourself, don't be. Do it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450
Ok, I went back and took some better pictures. I adjusted the camera settings some and I feel that the brightness level on these is more accurate to real life (especially Pure mode), however the image quality of course is no where near what it is in person. I also took these from a tripod so they're a bit less blurry overall.

These were taken with 8 lights turned on in the room and 3 windows open with the sun shining in.






Pure Mode (all lights on, windows open):






ISF Night (all lights on, windows open):






ISF Day (all lights on, windows open):


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450
I do feel that this 2nd set of pictures is a pretty good representation of the variation in brightness between the 3 modes, even though Pure doesn't look quite so flat, nor does ISF Day look quite so overblown. And I think the variation in the Elite logo has at least in part to do with the reflection off of the center channel. More light = brighter reflection. That'll be addressed soon, though.

Last edited by Turbe; 02-16-2009 at 02:40 PM.
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Unread 02-15-2009, 09:05 PM   #7
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I just watched a DVD with the lights off in a light tight room and found isf night (D-Nice) to be very very good. I would not want to use pure for anything now having ISF day and night. I might introduce some low level lighting to go with the night setting as I move on.

I use ISF day mode with the reading lights on for most TV watching.

I have found that energy save mode 1 does not hurt too much for DTV viewing and does keep things cooler. I turn it off for Blu Ray DVDs.

I have not liked "isf auto" (D-nice) with lights on but with dimmer lights found it fine.

Does anybody use "day mode" with the lights off? Is it too bright once your eyes have adjusted?

Joel
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Unread 05-08-2009, 12:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC Guy
I also recommend doing a calibration. On Wednesday afternoon I had the pleasure of having Gregg Loewen visit my apartment. He worked on my all Pioneer Elite setup which has a Kuro 111FD, a 05FD BD player and a 01THX AV receiver. Gregg calibrated my Kuro 111FD for Pure, ISF Day and ISF Night modes. He also did a 5400K Movie mode for me to view old black & white movies (my request). I have a funny feeling that I will be leaving the Kuro on the ISF Night mode the majority of the time.

All I can say is what a difference his calibration made. I thought that the Pure mode settings that I had been using based on D-Nice's settings were extremely good, but once I viewed the ISF modes that Gregg calibrated on my Kuro I am now hooked on recommending a professional calibration to all of my friends. This definitely makes a big difference on the Kuros.
All I can say is OMG!!!
Posted Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodaurora
Gregg calibrated for Pure and ISF DAY and Night. While the new Pure is nice, it does not compare with either of the ISF modes.

~

What those modes give me are much brighter images while retaining all of the contrast and POP of the "vivid" modes, but enhancing black levels and especially shadow detail to provide a more natural image and facial quality. Frankly, I'm suprised how much better the ISF modes are than anything I was using before. All you who raved about the differences in the calibrated images were/are correct.

I find that I use ISF DAY the most, since even at night, I usually have a reading lamp on ("multitask") for causal magazine flipping, etc while watching HDTV. In any case, there's always a little ambient light, so the room is never pitch black. In a dark room ISF Day provides a too "glarey" (sp.) image. When I watch a BD at night, getting the room as dark as possible, then I use ISF Night - it's a revelation. With either ISF mode, I don't have to fiddle with any other settings (since they're locked, anyway). That's a pleasure in itself.

~

Regards, Rod
Posted Here

Last edited by Turbe; 05-08-2009 at 03:09 PM.
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Unread 08-04-2009, 09:54 AM   #9
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.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33
ISF Modes are by far the best viewing experience in my home and I would argue that having Day/Night mode makes the other out of the box modes, well not necessary. Even the wife and kid commented on how bright and crisp the new TV looks. I was able to watchTransformers on Blu via my oppo yesterday evening and it just looks incredible. The set now produces such a clean, bright enjoyable picture and all the color is spot on. I am truly in a state of "Kuro Nirvana".
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