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Unread 04-07-2008, 02:26 PM   #1
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Post ControlCAL's Pioneer 8G Kuro Elite ISFccc / C3 Display Profile(s) Discussion

This thread is specifically for discussing ControlCAL's Pioneer 8G ISFccc (C3) Kuro / Elite Display Profile(s).

ISFccc Software / ISF Software


Current Profile Version: v1.1 (Requires ControlCAL v1.41 RC1 Build 20+).
Display Regions Supported: All Regions.

IMPORTANT:
BEFORE USING THESE PROFILES, PLEASE READ BOTH POST #2 AND POST #3 (below) for Instructions and Control Descriptions.

NOTE:
This is a Premium Display Profile and requires a Registered, Professional or Professional Plus Activation Key.


-----> NEW CONTROLCAL USER? SEE: Step-by-Step: Activating the ISFccc Memories and Entering Posted Settings.


Pioneer 8G Display Profiles for ControlCAL v1.41 RC1 Build 20+:

Contact Us for download information:



v1.41 RC1:
Build 20 - 07/29/2008
+First Release Candidate - No New Features/Options will be added in v1.41.
+Full Activation System is now Enabled.
+Option in the Pioneer C3 Mode to customize 3 of 4 text lines saved to the ISFccc Interface (Professional Plus Activation Key required) - (new ControlCAL.ini Option).

v1.41 Beta:
Build 19 - 06/20/2008
+Beta 3 Released - First Public Beta Version for 1.41.
+EDIT Mode now Enabled. Create, Save and Share your own ControlCAL Display Profiles.
+Fixed Spelling Error in C3 P1 Profile "Management".
+Changed ISF C3 Profiles File Names (deleted ISF).
+The Display Profiles are now a separate ZIP download from the ControlCAL application.

Build 18 - 05/23/2008
+Enabled Control Numeric Format #1 for REFRESH (Required for the new Mitsubishi HC3000 Display Profiles). See # Format.

Build 17 - 05/20/2008
+Changed/fixed ISF C3 Inputs Tuner A - Tuner F.

Build 16 - 05/18/2008
+Removed check for "No Communications" during C3 INPUT Change/SET.
+Added Reset C3 Input Combobox after Calibration Mode successfully Closed (END CALIBRATION).
+Added additional time (based on Profile's Wait_For) to enable OSD when Calibration Mode is Closed (END CALIBRATION).
+Changed END CALIBRATION status text from "ISF MODE CLOSING" to "C3 MODE CLOSING".
+Changed/fixed Home [Media] Gallery Input Code.
+Fixed C3 Input Combobox not Resetting to blank on Invalid Input Set (when blank to begin with).

Build 15 - 05/14/2008
+Fixed Saving and Restoring Extras Window Position.
+Fixed Tuner and Home [Media] Gallery Input Selections.
+Fixed 9G support for North American Models (Region).
+Added 9G support for Japanese Models (Region).
+Fixed close COM port on exit (if open) - Left Disabled in Last Build.
+Auto enable OSD (On) when Ending C3 Calibration Mode (END CALIBRATION).
+Changed "ISF" Text to "Pioneer C3" in START/END CALIBRATION Success/No Success Dialogs.
+Additional Error Checking on C3 INPUT Control (when SET Button Pressed).
+Added Zoom Control to C3 Profile P2. See POST #3
+Code rewritten in C3 START CALIBRATION and INPUT functions.
+Additional Undisclosed C3 Options.
+Additional Minor Bug fixes.

Build 14 - 04/28/2008
+Last two Profiles Loaded will be available in the File Menu for Quick Load.
+Added Option to Load a specific Profile on Startup (new ControlCAL.ini option - [Profile] Startup_Load=).
+Added Confirmation Dialog for ISF RESET CURRENT Button.
+'Polling Display, Please Wait...' now displayed when Refreshing Gamma Only.
+Each Control's Label should no longer flash sporadically*.
+Several functions re-written*.
+Minor Bug fixed in Control #6 Slider Position (COLOR MANAGMENT G in ISF C3 P1).
+Changed Keys used in the Menus for some Commands/Options.
*ControlCAL Process' CPU USAGE reduced by 50% (as tested on three computers).

Build 12 - 04/20/2008
+Auto Send option - Control's Value is automatically sent when its Slider is moved without the need to Press the Control's SEND Button.
+Disable Error Dialogs option - Some Error Dialogs can now be disabled.
+ControlCAL.ini config file - Allows you to tune ControlCAL's performance. See Post #4 for more information.
+Additional Settings are saved on exit (Auto Send, Auto Add CR, Confirm Send, Error Dialogs and HEX Input).
-Removed Keyboard Key Toggles (F5, F7 and F8).
+Some Code optimized or re-written to save memory and improve performance.

Build 11 - 04/17/2008
+All Pioneer Display Regions now Supported (North America, Europe, Australia, China and General Regions).
+Changed the labels for the two Buttons to Enter/Exit Calibration (START CALIBRATION and END CALIBRATION).



PROFILE: Pioneer 8G - ISF C3 - v1-0 - P1


PROFILE: Pioneer 8G - ISF C3 - v1-0 - P2




ISF and ISFccc (Imaging Science Foundation Certified Calibration Controls) are trademarks of Imaging Science Foundation.

Last edited by Turbe; 08-04-2014 at 08:23 AM.
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Unread 04-07-2008, 02:28 PM   #2
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8G PIONEER ISF C3 PROFILE CALIBRATION PROCEDURE FLOW

NOTE: You may want to download and print the 9G ISFccc Documentation found HERE (attached to that Post in MS Word or Adobe PDF format). It applies to the 8G's as well but you want to use the Control Translation Table in POST #3 below.

Start ControlCAL
Configure COM Port Settings [MENU/SETTINGS/PORT SETTINGS]
Quote:
Pioneer Displays Default to: 9600 Baud, 8 Data Bits, NO Parity and 1 Stop Bits, NO Flow Control.

Here are instructions from a Member of the Beta Test Group if you need to verify/change you Display's Serial Port Settings:
  1. First make sure your TV is in Stand-By mode. .
  2. Continuously hold down the "Home Menu" key and press the "Power" key within 3 seconds (release "Home Menu" after pressing "Power" key). After the Pioneer power's on you should see a menu with COM settings.
  3. Use your "Left" and "Right" arrows to scroll through and locate 9600-232C or the wanted baud rate .
  4. Once selected press the "Power" key to power off the set.
NOTE: Suggested Port Speed: 9600 baud (default).
IMPORTANT: The Pioneer ISFccc Interface will timeout and return to Normal Operating Mode (auto END CALIBRATION) after 8 minutes of inactivity/not receiving any commands via the serial port. This is normal and part of the Display's safety mechanisms. WORK-AROUND/TIP - Change a Control Setting, simply Press the small SEND Button next to a Control to resend the current value and/or REFRESH every few minutes. The 8 minute setting cannot be changed in the Display or disabled.

PIONEER ISF C3 PROCEDURE FLOW/INSTRUCTIONS
UPDATED: 04/17/2008
Load Profile Part #1 (or Part #2).

From Display Standby...

_1) Press POWER ON Button.
_2) Press the START CALIBRATION Button - Received ISF Level Not Supported Dialog? See below.

_3) Select INPUT and Press SET.

_4) Press ISF DAY MODE (or ISF NIGHT MODE) Button.
_5) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
_6) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
[OPTIONAL - STEPS #7-#9]
_7) Load Part #2 Profile (or Part #1 if #2 is loaded).
_8) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
_9) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
10) Press SAVE.

11) Press ISF NIGHT MODE (or ISF DAY MODE) Button.
12) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
13) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
[OPTIONAL - STEPS #14-#16]
14) Load Part #1 Profile (or Part #2 if #1 is loaded).
15) Press the REFRESH Button (to the right of the SEND ALL Button) to receive the current settings for the Mode from the Display.
16) Calibrate Controls (Press SEND to the right of each Control to send the value to the Display).
17) Press SAVE.

Repeat Steps 3-17 above for any other INPUTS you want to calibrate.

18) Press the END CALIBRATION Button NOTE: IT CAN TAKE UP TO ONE MINUTE FOR THIS STEP TO COMPLETE!!!!!!!.
19) Press POWER OFF Button.


'RESET CURRENT' BUTTON INFORMATION
This will allow you to Reset the Settings for an INPUT'S Current Mode (DAY or NIGHT) to their Defaults and Reset the Calibration Flag to 0 (like the Mode was never Calibrated).

You can only use this Button once you have Entered Calibration Mode, Selected an Input and Selected DAY MODE or NIGHT MODE.

For example, you want to Reset all the settings for INPUT 1, both DAY and NIGHT MODES.

After Pressing the START CALIBRATION Button:

1) SELECT INPUT 1 and Press SET

2) Press the ISF DAY MODE Button, Press the RESET CURRENT Button.
3) Press the ISF NIGHT MODE Button, Press the RESET CURRENT Button.

Press the END CALIBRATION Button to exit Calibration. NOTE: IT CAN TAKE UP TO ONE MINUTE FOR THIS STEP TO COMPLETE!!!!!!!


Each Input has two Modes... if you wanted to Reset ALL, you would have to repeats STEPS 1 to 3 (of course selecting a different Input).



TIPS AND SUGGESTED OPTIONS
Enable Auto Send (disabled by default) and Disable (uncheck) Error Dialogs (found under Settings in the Menu). When using Auto Send, there should be no reason to use the SEND ALL Button. If an Pioneer Error Code is received, you will still see this in the Terminal Window.


It may be a good idea to Print the Tables.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/show...58&postcount=3

Two other important bits of information are:
1) concerning the Gamma Controls. each time you change a Gamma Point, you want to Press one of the two Small REFRESH Buttons near the Gamma Controls (Sliders). The Large REFRESH Button in the Main Window will Refresh all Controls including Gamma, the two Smaller REFRESH Buttons only Refresh Gamma.

2) when loading the other Profile (i.e. P2 from P1) and you have already entered Calibration Mode, you do not have to Press the START CALIBRATION Button again. ControlCAL does remember the Input you selected (no need to re-send that) and which Memory you are working on (ISF Day/ISF Night).
Most start with the P2 Profile, make those adjustments and spend the rest only working with P1 (you can refer to P1/P2 as Part #1, Part #2, Page #1, Page #2 or use any term you see fit).

Please see these two Posts (they apply to the 8G's):

Procedure Flow:
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/show...57&postcount=2

ControlCAL.ini settings (speed up REFRESH, auto load one of the Pioneer Profiles on Startup, etc.):
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/show...59&postcount=4
I wouldn't change the AutoSend_Timing Setting, but the other two you would most likely find useful (many use a Value of 200 for Forced_Wait_For for the Pioneer Profiles).



RECEIVED THIS ERROR DIALOG?



If you get the "Display's ISF Level is not Compatible with this Profile" Dialog when you Press the CALIBRATION MODE Button, try again. Sometimes it is best to Select ControlCAL's Terminal Window and Press F12 (which sends a CR Only) after you first start ControlCAL, Load your first Profile and BEFORE you press any buttons, this can prep the Display for communications. If you continue to get this Dialog, verify that your Display is an 8th Generation Elite Model (North American) or Step up D (European). Other Regions will be added soon. A future Display Profile may be available for Non-Elites and their equivalents in other Regions.

RECEIVED THIS WARNING DIALOG?



This Warning Dialog does not indicate an Error with ControlCAL but does indicate that 1 of 2 Error Codes (as configured in the Display Profile) has been received from the Display. This could be due to communication errors, invalid values for the current mode etc.
i.e. Trying to send a value from the RGB-HIGHs (DRIVE) or RGB-LOWs (CUTOFF) Controls without first setting COLOR TEMP to 6 (Manual).

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ControlCAL_ISFLevelError.jpg (9.4 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg ControlCAL_ErrorCode.jpg (7.3 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by Turbe; 12-10-2008 at 11:36 AM.
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Unread 04-07-2008, 02:29 PM   #3
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PIONEER 8G ISF C3 PROFILE CONTROL VALUE DESCRIPTIONS


PURE CINEMA
0 - Off
1 - Standard
2 - Advance
3 - Smooth

COLOR TEMP (This Control is also available in Part/Page #1 and #2)
0 -
1 - Low
2 - Mid-Low
3 - Mid
4 - Mid-High
5 - High
6 - Manual <--- REQUIRED FOR SETTING RGB-HIGH (DRIVE) AND RGB-LOW (CUTOFF) CONTROLS

COLOR SPACE
0 -
1 - 1
2 - 2

BLACK LEVEL
0 - Off
1 - On

ACL
0 - Off
1 - On

3DYC
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

I-P MODE
0 -
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3

TEXT OPTIMISATION
0 - Off
1 - On

INTELLIGENT MODE
0 - Off
1 - On

DRE PICTURE
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

ENHANCER MODE
1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 3

BLOCK NR
0 - Off
1 - On

3DNR
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

FIELD NR
0 - Off
1 - Low
2 - Mid
3 - High

MOSQUITO NR
0 - Off
1 - On

ZOOM
0 - Dot by Dot (FHD Only)
1 - 4:3
2 - Full
3 - Zoom
4 - Cinema
5 - Wide
6 - Full 14:9 (All Models except North America)
7 - Cinema 14:9 (All Models except North America)



INPUT / TUNER TABLES

8th Generation (8G):

PC - North America: Input 8 | Europe: Input 6 | China/General Regions: Input 7 | Australia: Input 7

Tuner A - North America: DTV/Analog Tuner A | Europe: Analog Tuner | China/General Regions: Analog Tuner | Australia: Analog Tuner
Tuner B - North America: DTV/Analog Tuner B | Europe: N/A | China/General Regions: N/A | Australia: N/A
Tuner C - North America: N/A | Europe: DTV | China/General Regions: N/A | Australia: DTV


.
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Unread 04-07-2008, 02:29 PM   #4
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ControlCAL.ini Setting Descriptions

Default Settings (Note: ControlCAL will default most values if the ControlCAL.ini file is missing or improper values are entered):
Quote:
[Profile]
Forced_Wait_For=-1
Startup_Load="C:\YourProfile.cdp"

[AutoSend]
AutoSend_Timing=15

[PioneerC3]
Line1="calibrated 3/12/2008"
Line2="by your custom name"
Line3="your custom text"
Forced_Wait_For=[-1, 0-2000]
If this is Set between 0ms to 2000ms, ControlCAL will always use this value for the Wait_For Communication Setting instead of the one entered and saved with the Display Profile (helpful if the Display Profile is Locked). This is the time (in ms) between commands sent to the Display. Set to -1 to use the Wait_For value entered and saved with the Display Profile.


Startup_Load=Path/Display Profile
If you want to load a specific Display Profile each time ControlCAL is started, enter the Display Profile's Full Path and File Name within quotes.


AutoSend_Timing=[1-60]
How long the AutoSend Window is open/closed for sending commands when Auto Send is enabled (in ms). The Default [15] will allow commands to be sent approximately once per second. Use a smaller number to allow more steps to be sent per second, larger for less steps. Setting this to 60 would allow commands to be sent approximately once every two seconds.

[PioneerC3]
Line1=
Line2=
Line3=
Requires a Professional Plus Activation Key. The Line1-3 Options allows you to customize the first 3 lines of the text string saved to a Pioneer Display during ISFccc Calibration. Each line can be a maximum of 24 characters. The 4th Line will be saved as " www.ControlCAL.com " (though you may Contact Us for options to remove this branding). Enclose your text within Quotes and use Spaces to center each line as needed. Valid ASCII Character Codes: Decimal 32 to Decimal 126 (HEX: 20 to 7E) - i.e. abcd ABCD !"#$ {|}~.



More information concerning these Settings can be found HERE.
Wolfy tested various Settings and reporting his results HERE.

NOTE:
Make sure ControlCAL.ini is in the same directory as ControlCAL's .EXE.
If you make any changes while ControlCAL is running, you need to restart ControlCAL.
.

Last edited by Turbe; 08-12-2008 at 08:59 PM.
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Unread 04-14-2008, 06:26 AM   #5
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Well, I finally got my hands on a straight serial DB9 cable on Saturday so I have now finally got to try out ControlCAL with my Pioneer PDP-428XD.

Overall a positive experience and I was definitely able to flatten my gamma tracking with the 9 point gamma adjustment, although the gamma controls in the Pioneer software are a bit too crude, i.e. only +/- 5, would have been nicer with more sensitive controls for finer adjustments.

I had no issues with ControlCAL's GUI except a few user errors on my part which is to be expected in learning a new software. An option to disable all warning dialogs would be nice and I think that is soon the case from what I've read.

A suggestion would be to change to look of Profile Window P2 to more mimic the layout in Pioneer's menu and the manual, i.e. something like this:


(Note: I changed places between 3DNR and Block NR)

I have indicated the groupings of different controls with the colored fields above.

This is not a huge deal, but would be nice IMHO.

Also, would it be possible to send the Set command as soon as you select an Input as opposed to the Set button?

That's a few words on my initial impressions. A work well done Shawn, cheers! Early days for me using ControlCAL so I'm sure I will write more as I continue to use this nice piece of software.

Is it something special you would like to have tested or do you want us to simply use the program and report back with any issues we might encounter?
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Unread 04-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #6
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Default Gamma

This may be a stupid question, but one thing I noticed when making my adjustments is that control cal leaves out Pioneer's gamma curve selection of 1-3. Is there any way to implement it, or is is totally unnecessary?
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Unread 04-14-2008, 03:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornavy View Post
This may be a stupid question, but one thing I noticed when making my adjustments is that control cal leaves out Pioneer's gamma curve selection of 1-3. Is there any way to implement it, or is is totally unnecessary?
I think Blutarsky mentioned that too, but the 9-Point is what is available via the ISFccc interface, I believe those other selections are not needed.
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Unread 04-14-2008, 04:03 PM   #8
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Wolfy, thanks for those initial impressions..

Quote:
"Also, would it be possible to send the Set command as soon as you select an Input as opposed to the Set button?"
I could add this in when I enable the option to Auto Send each Control's Value (when changed)....

Quote:
"I have indicated the groupings of different controls with the colored fields above."
Very easy to move Controls around with ControlCAL's design.... Perhaps others can chime in with their opinion concerning the groupings....

As far as adding Group Names, I'll have to think about this and how I would need to implement it.. Remember, ControlCAL is designed so Profiles can be created for many Displays by different Manufacturers. I did decide early on that I would put the Slider Controls in Groups of three (six Groups total per page) which would work well with the Displays I was familiar with and the ones I have the Serial Code Documentation for.

Quote:
"A suggestion would be to change to look of Profile Window P2 to more mimic the layout in Pioneer's menu and the manual, i.e. something like this:"
I went from the Pioneer ISF C3 Documentation I have.... but as I stated above, it is very easy to move Controls to other positions if that is what you want.

Quote:
"Is it something special you would like to have tested or do you want us to simply use the program and report back with any issues we might encounter?"
I'll let you know.. most likely, there will be some specific tests requests in the next builds.


-Shawn
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Unread 04-14-2008, 05:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
Wolfy, thanks for those initial impressions..
You're very welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
I could add this in when I enable the option to Auto Send each Control's Value (when changed)....
Excellent, it's not a big deal though, easy enough to click on the Set button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
Very easy to move Controls around with ControlCAL's design.... Perhaps others can chime in with their opinion concerning the groupings....

As far as adding Group Names, I'll have to think about this and how I would need to implement it.. Remember, ControlCAL is designed so Profiles can be created for many Displays by different Manufacturers. I did decide early on that I would put the Slider Controls in Groups of three (six Groups total per page) which would work well with the Displays I was familiar with and the ones I have the Serial Code Documentation for.
Yes, it would be interesting to hear what others think.

I did not mean to add group names, that's not necessary. The current way of grouping in groups of three is fine. The colors and names had no meaning other then to indicate the way that those specific controls are grouped together in Pioneer's 8G User Menu (under Pro Adjust), i.e. like the following:
  • PureCinema:
    • Film Mode
    • Text Optimisation
  • Intelligent Mode
  • Picture Detail:
    • DRE Picture
    • Black Level
    • ACL
    • Enhancer Mode
    • Gamma (9 point gamma in ISF C3)
  • Color Detail:
    • Color Temp (I understand why it's placed where it is in ControlCAL and that's fine)
    • CTI
    • Color Management (same as with Color Temp)
    • Color Space
  • Noise Reduction:
    • 3DNR
    • Field NR
    • Block NR
    • Mosquito NR
  • Others:
    • 3DYC
    • I-P Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
I went from the Pioneer ISF C3 Documentation I have.... but as I stated above, it is very easy to move Controls to other positions if that is what you want.
Yes, no big deal. It was only an idea because people used to Pioneer's User Menu will possibly feel more at home with an order like I suggested above. If you download an 8G user manual from Pioneer's website you will know what I mean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbe View Post
I'll let you know.. most likely, there will be some specific tests requests in the next builds.

-Shawn
Looking forward to it!

Another suggestion

Would it be possible to change the 9 point gamma drop down list to a (don't remember the English word) list where you click on buttons to change the value in the list, right/left buttons or up/down buttons? I hope you understand what I mean.
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Unread 04-14-2008, 06:02 PM   #10
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Any reason that you did not put the color management controls in order of R:G:B:Y:C:M ?

You have the high and low controls in order of RGB
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Unread 04-14-2008, 06:18 PM   #11
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Default Initial Impressions

I'm very happy with the way everything is set up. It took me a little bit to get used to having to set and save and set normal, but other than that I don't know that much improvement is necessary. I'm still not sure about not being able to select the gamma curves. I understand that there is a 9 point adjustment, but all that does is help flatten out the grayscale. Maybe the gamma cure is perfect through the ISFccc. I haven't done an actual grayscale run yet to see where my gamma sits with my control cal adjustments, but I'll give that a shot soon. I'll keep playing with the program and reporting in. Thanks Shawn for taking the initiative to do this, and for letting all of us help out.
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Unread 04-14-2008, 06:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary1027 View Post
Any reason that you did not put the color management controls in order of R:G:B:Y:C:M ?

You have the high and low controls in order of RGB
I didn't even think about this, I just entered them in the order the ISF C3 Documentation had...

Let me know exactly how you would like them (positions for all the Controls).. hopefully others will share their opinions as well... I can change the positions very quickly.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornavy View Post
I'm very happy with the way everything is set up. It took me a little bit to get used to having to set and save and set normal, but other than that I don't know that much improvement is necessary. I'm still not sure about not being able to select the gamma curves. I understand that there is a 9 point adjustment, but all that does is help flatten out the grayscale. Maybe the gamma cure is perfect through the ISFccc. I haven't done an actual grayscale run yet to see where my gamma sits with my control cal adjustments, but I'll give that a shot soon. I'll keep playing with the program and reporting in. Thanks Shawn for taking the initiative to do this, and for letting all of us help out.
Thanks for your initial impression.. Once you take the time with gamma, post your thoughts/results here.


-Shawn
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Unread 04-14-2008, 07:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornavy View Post
I'm very happy with the way everything is set up. It took me a little bit to get used to having to set and save and set normal, but other than that I don't know that much improvement is necessary. I'm still not sure about not being able to select the gamma curves. I understand that there is a 9 point adjustment, but all that does is help flatten out the grayscale. Maybe the gamma cure is perfect through the ISFccc. I haven't done an actual grayscale run yet to see where my gamma sits with my control cal adjustments, but I'll give that a shot soon. I'll keep playing with the program and reporting in. Thanks Shawn for taking the initiative to do this, and for letting all of us help out.
My understanding is that the 9 point adjustment is for flattening out the gamma curve(s) or in other words make the luminance adhere to a target logarithmic curve. This will also interact with grayscale tracking so you need to keep your eyes on both, but the 9 point adjustment are for adjusting the gamma. At least, that's how I understand it.

You only have a 2 point grayscale adjustment, RGB Highs (Gains) and RGB Lows (Cuts). I use a 80% pattern for Gains and a 30% pattern for Cuts.

I use the following workflow:
  1. Set black level and then white level using brightness and contrast.
  2. Set gamut (primary colors) using Color Management.
  3. Set gamma, i.e. a flat gamma tracking using 9 point gamma adjustment.
  4. Set grayscale using RGB Highs and Lows.
  5. Check and Set secondary colors if necessary using Color Management.
  6. Check gamut again, adjust if necessary.
  7. Set color decoder using Color and Tint (NTSC).
  8. Start from 3 again, when OK advance to 9.
  9. Check everything from 1, if OK, calibration is done.

Edit: Forgot adding adjustment of the color decoder
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Display: Pioneer PDP-428XD, ControlCAL 1.41
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Unread 04-15-2008, 03:22 AM   #14
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My initial impressions were very positive. I enjoyed all the options. The error boxes are a bit annoying. One wrong button at the wrong time sends a swarm of error boxes. A better description of the controls would also be an improvement, such as Pure Cinema Advance, Standard or Smooth. Instead of 1,2 or 3.
Pressing "RESET CURRENT" will also reset the current AV SETTING that you are in, such as MOVIE or PURE. I just happened to wipe out a good calibration on movie when I Pressed that button. (O WELL, LOL).
I was unable to test the Gamma controls, but I will get to them soon.
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Unread 04-15-2008, 10:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razz1 View Post
My initial impressions were very positive. I enjoyed all the options. The error boxes are a bit annoying. One wrong button at the wrong time sends a swarm of error boxes. A better description of the controls would also be an improvement, such as Pure Cinema Advance, Standard or Smooth. Instead of 1,2 or 3.
Pressing "RESET CURRENT" will also reset the current AV SETTING that you are in, such as MOVIE or PURE. I just happened to wipe out a good calibration on movie when I Pressed that button. (O WELL, LOL).
I was unable to test the Gamma controls, but I will get to them soon.
Pioneer does have an command available to RESET ALL but I decided not to have that as an option. Blutarsky suggested I add a confirmation and I think that is a good idea.

BTW, do you remember what you did to see/receive all those Error Dialogs (and were they Errors or Warnings)?

In regards to the error boxes, I will be adding an option to disable those. There are Warnings and the check to see if 1 of 2 Error Codes was sent from the Display. I need to decided if I should disable both with one option or have an option for both, so each can be disabled/enabled individually. What do you think?

As far as the Control's Description (i.e. Standard, Smooth vs 1, 2, 3), the Trackbar/Slider type Control gives me flexibility in supporting many Displays from different Manufacturers. But everyone's feedback is important.

I see two options here:
1) Create an additional Control Type (Combobox) and allow each Position to contain either a Trackbar/Slider or Combobox Control (with descriptive names as you suggest).

2) Create a separate application for the ISFccc interface and customize the GUI to work best with the Pioneers. Of course, this option would not be part of my original goal for this application - a Universal Type Control Application with Loadable Display Profiles.
In any case, either option would not happen for at least a few versions from now.


Thanks again for the feedback...


-Shawn
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Unread 04-15-2008, 11:04 AM   #16
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Can someone give me a tip for setting gamma correctly. Some of the gamma points don't line up perfectly with each of my IRE's and changing some of the points throws others out of whack. I'm about to throw my 950 out the window. Grrrrr. Is this Control Cals fault, or am I correct in thinking it's my display?
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Unread 04-15-2008, 11:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gatornavy View Post
Can someone give me a tip for setting gamma correctly. Some of the gamma points don't line up perfectly with each of my IRE's and changing some of the points throws others out of whack. I'm about to throw my 950 out the window. Grrrrr. Is this Control Cals fault, or am I correct in thinking it's my display?
Blutarsky posted his concern(s) about this on AVS... I'll find it and post it here.

Perhaps he will comment as well.
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Unread 04-15-2008, 01:37 PM   #18
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I noticed that Control Cal seems to shut calibration mode down by itself if it's idle for too long. This can be a pain while running some tests. Can you extend this time or disable it all together?
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Unread 04-15-2008, 01:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by gatornavy View Post
I noticed that Control Cal seems to shut calibration mode down by itself if it's idle for too long. This can be a pain while running some tests. Can you extend this time or disable it all together?
It's 8 minutes and this is safety mechanism built into Pioneer's Displays. If I remember right, it cannot be changed.

It was suggested that I add some type of timer to ControlCAL to keep track of this and I may add this feature.

Instead of a timer, I may have it auto save your Control's Values/Positions every few minutes (once I an add option to save them in the first place).

Workaround?
You could simply Press SEND for one of the Controls without changing the Slider (or the Control's value) every few minutes, I believe that would reset the Display's internal timer.


-Shawn
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Unread 04-15-2008, 01:43 PM   #20
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Concerning Gamma from the post above:

Blutarsky's post on AVS:
Quote:
I've followed Huffmans guide: set some initial brightness and contrast , adjust gamma curve (inside ISF C3 interface it looks like there is no Gamma1,2,3 setting); once in place, set red Y to 21% of 100 IRE white.
Then moved on into the grayscale and CIE chart/colorpoints adjustment cycle.

Once done, I've finally entered the 9 point gamma tracking values.

There has been a lot of discussions between professional calibrators about using this interface and it looks like it is contradictory and confusing. I've used it only once, so I may be wrong, but It looks like there's plenty of room for improvements.

First of all it has a "ten points" scale from -5 to +5 acting as a fine tuning tool, BUT:

- On the low IRE side of the scale, just one "click" plus/minus makes curves in the grayscale "jump" very quickly with big loss/gains in the 10% order on the graph, say one click increase, moves the curve from 95% to 105%....

- On the high side of the scale, the contrary: you need many "clicks" to "move" the curve.

- One other strange beheaviour is that if you tweak a point, you are actually changing the next one! You have to keep in mind this factor.
Quote:
Also, as pointed out allready, the behaviour of the 9 point gamma should radically change: it would be much better to have a wider control range, with a larger number of steps, to allow users to make very fine adjustments but at the same time giving the opportunity to boost values if needed.
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